YPMS Episode 11: Deep Funnel Marketing with Facebook Ads expert Bob Regnerus

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Show Notes

Casey Stanton
You’re listening to your perfect marketing strategy, the only podcast to teach you what marketing tactics are working right now, how to know which tactics are right for your business, and the immediate steps that you can take to deploy those tactics to grow your business today. Hey, it’s your host, Casey Stanton with https://cmox.co, the fractional Chief Marketing Officer company. And I’m here with my friend, Bob Regnerus. From Chicago, Bob is the author of The Ultimate Guide to Facebook Ads, and the co founder of Feed Stories. Today, we’re going to be diving in and talking about deep funnel marketing. If you don’t know what that is, I think you got a lot to learn. So hey, Bob, welcome to the show.

Bob Regnerus
Hey, good to be on Casey, get a guy from Chicago and Philly together.

Casey Stanton
So we’re here to talk about deep funnel marketing. And just give me a quick definition, what is deep down marketing?

Bob Regnerus
Well, here’s, here’s, here’s my, here’s the reason I put this together, I believe that most advertisers don’t go nearly deep enough. And don’t know the extent at which they have to go to convert a stranger into a customer. You see a lot of surface level shallow advertising, basically lazy advertisers just try to go for the sale on the first ad. That that doesn’t work, in my opinion. So what I developed over the last several years is called Deep funnel marketing, which is essentially a strategy that says, We want to deliver the right content to the right audience at the right time. And it’s it’s very tightly based on a concept that Eugene Schwartz talked about in 1966. In breakthrough advertising, it’s the customer awareness timeline, and I think even got a copy there to show.

Casey Stanton
Yeah, I do I do this all the time. I think that solution aware problem aware, I mean, it’s, it’s such a critical understanding of you have to understand where the prospect is, before you deliver a message to them. Otherwise, you’re just walking around proposing to everyone all day long. And no one knows you first name, right?

Bob Regnerus
You’re that guy, right? You’re that guy that everyone’s rejecting? And, you know, it’s essentially, it’s essential on Facebook, you know, like, a lot of people have advertised on Google. And they’re very familiar with, like, hey, it’s a keyword search. People are there, they’re solving problems, right? They type questions into Google, and they expect to get answers back. Well, that person’s problem aware? Well, on Facebook, you’re interrupting people, right? I mean, you’re literally like the unwelcome guest at a party. So you have this extra step of people like being completely unaware of you, and hear you are interrupting while they’re looking at pictures of friends and family. So you have to be really, really adept at understanding the mindset of where your prospect is that and know where they’re at, in the timeline, use the signals that they give you to give different content at different points in the timeline. That’s what deep funnel marketing is all about.

Casey Stanton
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So I can just think of just bad advertising that I’ve seen before, which is like buy this thing. If you think yourself. Wait, what is it? What? Why would I even like, well, what kind of advertising is asking me to buy something that I don’t even know that it solves a problem? It’s not identifying where I am in the buyers journey?

Bob Regnerus
Yeah. And you know, look, I’m not saying this is a strategy that every single business can use. So I mean, we’re this might be where I’d say, hey, you can be shallow advertiser is when you’re talking about commodities, right? Like, everybody knows what it is, they don’t need to think it’s either cheap, or it’s simple, right? So I’m not going to say, Hey, we need this strategy for every business. But the clients I deal with kcrw, they sell expensive, or complex products and services. And it’s based on an example of what something like that would look like, well, let’s start with something I know, like, like financial services, right? So like, you’re going to turn your money over to somebody or turn your tax return over to somebody, like, you’re not just going to do that, you know, based on an ad that you see, like, you’re not going to book a consultation, from the get go with a financial advisor, just because they put an ad in front of you, you know, think about the process of like, maybe you have one or you’re looking for one, what are you going to do, you’re gonna you’re gonna first like, okay, who’s around me. And then you’re going to start to say, okay, like, what makes these guys or these women different, you know, maybe a couple of them have a book, you know, I know a couple financial advisors who I helped write their books, and over years ago, they have radio shows or podcasts, they give seminars, they they have articles on their blog, like this is all stuff that’s our that builds trust. And those are the types of things you have to put in front of somebody. So you know, when when you’re thinking about, Hey, I’m gonna get myself in front of somebody, I love I love and I teach in the book about using video or articles, top of funnel to sit and serve your audience, introduce and educate them first, and then start to nurture them and then you make your offer I you know, look, it doesn’t have to be months and months, but certainly you don’t want to be jamming somebody into an appointment. Can It just won’t work from from single ad, it just does not work.

Casey Stanton
So I want to, there are people who say otherwise. And then the kind of people who say, flip the funnel, and don’t have a emergency sequence and go direct to a conversation. And your application fee or your call booking fee is gonna be one 200 300 bucks, right to get someone on the front end to pay 200 bucks, but then you get them on the phone, you don’t have to deal with all the other crap of a lead magnet to a follow up to it yada, yada. S o why do you think that this deep funnel marketing approaches is advantageous?

Bob Regnerus
Well, look, I that whole concept of reverse in the funnel? I’m not I’m not arguing against it. There are people right now who are completely solution aware. And they’re just searching for places to plug themselves in, right? So the marketing space is saturated with this, right? We are all marketers and we all buy like we don’t need to be wooed necessarily. I’m thinking of coaching, like in the coaching space as well. Like, if your radar is on and you’re looking for that stuff, you’re going to be able to see an ad like that. But there’s a I mean, that’s just a small amount of people that are essentially like solution aware at any given time, right? It’s only if that person’s mindset that that stuff works. Well. What about everybody else? Like we kind of throw them out, right? And we’re not saying hey, they’re never going to be our client, but they’re not ready to be your client right now. So why not build yourself a following build up some authority, build up a platform and and really kind of capture them and woo them and nurture them. And then when you have something you want to sell them like they’re ready to go like it’s almost a fall down sale at that point if you did your job. So yeah, I’m not against going direct to market with certain offers, but you’re only going to catch the people that are solution aware at that stage. And there’s, there’s, there’s way more people in the problem aware and the unaware stage that are ready to be your customers. They just need to be taught about you.

Casey Stanton
Yeah, let’s take it back. Break it down the Eugene Schwartz. Flow there. So everyone who’s listening understand

Bob Regnerus
Yeah, you really want to get this book. It’s only it’s first of all, Casey, you know, this, this books $125

Casey Stanton
It’s an important book.

Bob Regnerus
Yeah. It’s out of print. It was written by Eugene Schwartz, who is passed away, his widow is still alive. But Brian Kurtz, a friend of ours, a mutual friend of ours, like took over this and is publishing this book. It’s not available on Amazon, you can probably find a used one. But Brian sells his book. And it’s really if you’re a marketer, and don’t have this book, kind of shame on you. Because this is this is this precedes all that. Everything that you’re reading now is based on Eugene Schwartz, his work and others that came before him.

Casey Stanton
It’s only 50 cents a page, where you go, not that expensive. And when I think back, like, I’ve been into magic, like my whole life, right, like sleight of hand. And that’s where I first saw information products being sold at the value of the information and not the cost of printing. So I remember buying the Ken quinzel VHS tape called on the past, and it being a $75 VHS. People thought I was crazy. Yeah. And I knew that that $75 I could invest in then, you know, have an extra five minutes in my in my show or something? And you know, yeah, and that and increase my rates. So I think that the book breakthrough advertising, you’re right, it’s like a tome of marketing. And if you don’t have it, like, you’re asleep at the wheel.

Bob Regnerus
Yeah. I mean, it’s it’s like, you know, child Dinis book, right? In the book, he talks about the customer wareness timeline, it goes from left to right, it’s your you’re unaware, your problem aware, your solution aware? You it’s solution aware, then you’re solution aware, meaning they’re aware of you and then their buyers, okay? And somebody is going to fall along that timeline at any given time. You You, you’d be you know, you you come across some or they come across you. And a part of your job as a marketer as an advertiser is to understand where they’re at, and to give them time that content along the way. And, you know, Facebook really makes this possible through their pixel, you know, the technology which tracks everything you do on a website, both on both on Facebook and off Facebook really allows you to time your content. So what we talk about is, people will give you signals. So let me just kind of break this down from a from a high level standpoint. So you know, we use the example of financial advisor, it could be a coach, it could be a consultant, it could be a real estate, it doesn’t matter. Your first point is you’re going after unaware audience, you’re just trying to get some attention. All right, you’re trying to put an ad in front of them that basically hooks them and gets them understanding and gets them on your way. are now what you’re doing there is you’re likely trying to agitate some sort of problem they have like everybody has something that’s going on right now. And you you have a solution to that particular problem. Otherwise you’re not in business. Right?

Casey Stanton
You got an example of that. There’s a couple that come to mind. So squatty potty. It truly is something that people didn’t know that they needed. But once they educated that the you know, right way to eliminate is with your knees higher up, right, they realised that they needed this thing. So squatty potty had to go through the arduous effort of educating the market, which is expensive, and that’s so down funnel. What do you think about that? Like, when does someone want to do that down down the funnel, like, gross education? Because then a, me too brand can come up and make their own squatty potty derivative? Because it’s not patented? and be able to steal the goodwill of everyone who’s been educated?

Bob Regnerus
It’s a great example of Yeah, I mean, this essentially established a market but yeah, they, they, they people wherever, probably didn’t know they had. And I mean, that that’s a masterful job. And that takes a lot of talent. By the way, you know, Harmon brothers, of course, are super talented at that.

Casey Stanton
They also have essentially what he did, right, which was like another one, right? I mean, they’re kind of like, leading that education.

Bob Regnerus
Yeah, I mean, they definitely got that niche for for, you know, big consumer products. But, you know, this works for you know, you and I probably come across a lot of coaches consultants right there, hey, you know, I help people solve problems on the consultant of some type, well, they’re, they’re your dime a dozen, right, you don’t really stand out. So what you got to do first of all, is kind of wave them down, right? It’s like you’re stuck in traffic, you got to kind of wave them down. And that’s really the first step of your funnel is to get attention. I love I love for somebody who’s in a position to use content top of funnel. So it’s an article, it’s a video, it’s something that demonstrates your expertise, but also agitate some sort of problem. I mean, the reason you exist is to solve a problem, otherwise, people aren’t paying you money, right? And that the tougher problems you solve, the more money you make. But the idea is, I need to make you aware that I’m here. And I need to make aware of a problem. All right. And then as you get to know me, as you nurture, right, so if you visit my website and read an article on my blog, or you spend a minute watching a video in your newsfeed, I’ve pixeled, you right, Facebook has pixeled you so now I have this signal saying, hey, this person is no longer unaware at this point. They’re now problem aware, moving towards solution aware. So I’m going to change my content. Right? Now, what I’m going to do is say, hey, if they watched a one minute video, where I talked about, you know, if I’m if I’m a business coach, and I teach him how to generate, you know, multiple clients per month, I’m going to agitate the problem that they don’t have enough clients coming into their funnel. Alright, so they read an article, they watched a video, and Okay, I’ve got their attention. I’ve told them the problem they solved. So now what’s going to happen is I’m going to share a piece of content down the funnel, which is, hey, I want you to register for this webinar, or I want you to download this white paper, something that says, hey, I’m going to talk about solving this problem that I just introduced to you. All right, if they watch the webinar, if they opt in and get that lead magnet, they giving you another signal, right now they’re moving down the timeline here. And of course, obviously, we’re simplifying this. But now they’ve kind of made those steps and now they spend time, so like a webinars an hour, 90 minutes, a white paper may take 1520 minutes to read through now that you spent time with you. Now, all of a sudden, you put something in front of them, Hey, you know, I’ve got open slots on my calendar, I do these free consoles, we’re going to take a look at your current marketing, we’re going to spend an hour together. And you know, obviously, it’s some sort of strategy call, and there’s a coaching programme on the back end, okay. But all those things, right? It’s you’re building rapport, you’re building relationship, you’re agitating problem, you’re demonstrating your credibility. And now you’re ready for me to introduce my paid programme or my paid solution that you’re willing to pay? Because I’ve invested time and money into you. And you understand that I’m the person that’s going to solve your problem, simplified version, but that’s kind of what it is.

Casey Stanton
Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. And I can see the the utility in it. So when it comes to actually making this happen, where do you start? You start at the top, and do the education all the way through to the acquisition of the customer? Or do you start with that? That first promotion that we talked about, which is only to solution aware, folks and saying, hey, I’ve got this thing that solves your problem. You get a small percentage of those people then do you work your way backwards, one step and then backwards one step, or again, do you start at the top and work your way forward?

Bob Regnerus
So I start at the very bottom of the funnel like I I teach it In the book, like the very first thing that any advertisers should be setting up on Facebook is your absolute bottom of funnel retargeting. So you are going to retarget people that are ready to buy from you and haven’t yet so let’s say your your conversion mechanism is a webinar, you need to set up a retargeting campaign, that retarget people that watched your webinar and didn’t click the buy button, or they watched your webinar and didn’t book a strategy session. Okay. I want to set that up first, because those are the people that are closest to buying from you. All right, and they’re probably lacking some bit of information, they have some nagging question that you want to answer through your content and you want to push them back into your into your conversion, funnel and close them, it’s going to be your highest converting advertising, it’s going to be your least expensive highest return on adspend.

Casey Stanton
It also just to do that. It’s the it’s the right place to start. Absolutely. But it is limited, right? You’re just not going to get a lot of traffic, right? Not a lot of volumes

Bob Regnerus
Of courses. And there’s a very practical reason for starting that first. Okay, think about this. So if you dive in and do all the front cold end stuff, first, you’ve got all these people coming in. All right, you’re you’re losing from from the time you kit, you hit submit and and people start hitting your website, you don’t you need you’re wasting time you’re wasting impressions, because you’re not nurturing them, and you don’t have anything bottom of funnel, okay, there’s people that will rapidly go from unaware to buying from you, right, we talked about that there’s, there’s people that are ready to buy now, you just hit them at the right time. But if you don’t have a mechanism in place to retarget those folks and close them, you’re losing that money, right? People come to your order page and abandon all the time. I mean, right now e commerce band, your institute just said, you know, in 2019, the average add to cart abandonment rate right now it’s 69%, which is so 70% of the people that put something in their cart and not buying on the first time. And it’s and it’s not for any reason other than they’re busy. They want to they want to think about it. They want to wait till later, they got busy, they got distracted, all they really need is a reminder,

Casey Stanton
Okay, are they checking prices, they’re checking reviews, they’re like doing more research than right there, it’s not necessarily an intent for them to bail for good.

Bob Regnerus
Exactly. And some of them will bill for good. I mean, some people just add stuff to cart, whatever. But people do that, too. If you’re you know, if you have an order form for you know, if you have a high end product or something like that, people are thinking about it, and sometimes all they need is just that little nudge. So why not get that set up first, even though there’s very little traffic there, it’s there ready to go from the day that you you know, go and say, Hey, I’m going to start scaling to cold traffic. So I want my bottom of funnel stuff there so that I can convert all those people that are real close to buying for me. And then I want to build my nurture and sequence of Okay, what is the content that I have to share with people? So these are

Casey Stanton
Before I just want to go back to that last that bottom piece. So early in my career, I was working with a company that sold like home goods, and we doubled their e commerce conversion rate, just by installing a remarketing campaign for people who abandoned cart.

Bob Regnerus
Well, you said, You said you were in the magic.

Casey Stanton
Right? Right. What a great campaign and then they thought we hung the moon and it was difficult to get those kind of numbers up funnel. But it was very nice. We didn’t have to double traffic, we’d have to double adspend we’d have to do anything difficult. We just said, okay, people are going down to the shipping thing they’re putting in their zip code and then they’re abandoning, we assume it’s because our shipping is pretty expensive because they’re actually buying a lot of weight. So let’s run a remarketing ad that says guaranteed lowest shipping prices price match guarantee, because that’s the that’s the kind of business they went into more commodities for sure doubled from a 1% to a 2% ecommerce conversion rate.

Bob Regnerus
Think about that over the course of a year.

Casey Stanton
It’s more than double revenue because you have no real additional expenses. That advertising campaign is costs near zero.

Bob Regnerus
Yeah, I mean, typically just like a retargeting campaign there, Casey you know, we’ll see a one to 21 to 50 I got one client that’s one to 110. For every dollar they spend, they make $110 and it’s just a simple like last step retargeting campaign to call people back who are bottom of the funnel.

Casey Stanton
So if you have like an e commerce site, someone who’s listening and they’re selling a widget, we’re saying the first thing you should do is to make sure that you have remarketing for people who hate your cart and don’t purchase.

Bob Regnerus
Absolutely and you know, for for our clients that are on Shopify and WooCommerce you know, those big Facebook integrates perfectly with them. And what you want to do is you want to, you want to set your products up and you should have a product set up in a catalogue inside of Facebook. And what you want to use is a catalogue sales, Facebook conversion objective and use dynamic product ads, especially if you have a large catalogue and put that put that very same product that they added to their cart and didn’t buy, it’ll put it right back in their face inside the newsfeed you’re going to drop back in.

Casey Stanton
Alright, let’s get nerdy on this because dynamic ads I think are really cool. I don’t think I use them. Yeah, what is the size of your catalogue need to be before you think that it’s advantageous or time effective to use dynamic ads.

Bob Regnerus
I got a client and his three products where we use it. I love the dynamic ad. I love the dynamic aspect of it. And what it does is it essentially sets them up if they do want to scale the more products but yeah, it’s they have three products in their catalogue. But we like to use the dynamic retargeting because it’s so easy to do. And we, you know, we can insert, we can put stuff in the Shopify database, you know, short descriptions and variables. And we can include that just by doing dynamic variable insertion in our Facebook ad.

Casey Stanton
So you’re in Shopify, you set these criteria or these variables, and then Facebook displays them as unique ad creatives for the unique audience. That’s amazing.

Bob Regnerus
Yeah, Facebook pulls that data out of Shopify on a regular basis. It could do it hourly, it could do it daily, could do it weekly, whatever, but it pulls that information out and populates it into the catalogue. So you’ve got a catalogue that sits in Shopify, you have a catalogue that sits on Facebook, those two things stay in sync, and you’re able to use all that information with variable insertion that Facebook gives you is literally point and click.

Casey Stanton
That’s great.

Bob Regnerus
By the way, I did this man, like I did this manually before they had this. I had a client that had 50 skews, and I set up 50 separate retargeting campaigns because I knew how powerful it was to retarget on the same product. It was not available when when when remarketing came out in 2014, and 2015 it was like a godsend when they came up with dynamic retargeting. It’s like, Oh my god, where have you been on my life?

Casey Stanton
Yeah, okay, so with that dynamic retargeting? Are you able to do multiple ad variations to test against one another?

Bob Regnerus
Yep, you have, you can do full automatic control, you can say hey, you know, just kind of pick and choose what you want Facebook, or you could go in there and choose different ad, ad creative, you know, different texts, different headlines. Yeah, you’ve got all full ability to test different things there.

Casey Stanton
Oh, that’s so cool. So Facebook is gonna like auto optimise the ad? And do you trust that Facebook Auto optimises in a way that’s best for you? Or is it best for them and you spending?

Bob Regnerus
Well, at some point, you got to trust Facebook. And I know we all have a love hate relationship. Within these days. We’re all kind of pins and needles, advertisers allama Facebook, but it’s a couple of things I do trust, I trust their AI, from the standpoint of they’re much better at finding people that want to buy from me than I could find myself because it knows everything about all its users. It knows exactly what I do on Facebook. And it knows everything I do off of Facebook because of that pixel. So I trust, I trust their AI in terms of targeting. And I trust their AI in terms of bidding and like, hey, if I if I want to get leads, I run a lead campaign. If I want to get catalogue sales, I run a catalogue campaign, the thing that I get control over that they don’t really do a good job of is ad creative. Like I get to choose the ad creative. So I get to use my copy skills and my media skills to be better than all the other advertisers. Alright, so that’s that’s where you get all the control. Quite frankly, that’s where most of the conversion happens is in the ad creative. So that’s where you should be spending most of your time anyway.

Casey Stanton
Right. And you’re saying that those ad creatives can be dynamically created, but they’re based on text that you wrote at shot?

Bob Regnerus
Yes, yes. Yes. Yeah. Facebook is not writing. It’s all you. All you.

Casey Stanton
Oh, very interesting. Okay, cool. Okay, so we just jammed here on remarketing? What’s the level up from remarketing

Bob Regnerus
The level up is also remarketing. But what you’re doing is you’re you’re under the understanding that somebody is now aware of you and there’s somewhere between problem and solution aware. And your job is to basically nurture them along the way. And so that’s usually additional education. You know, explainer type videos, articles, things like that you’re giving them perspective. But then also, what we like to use middle of funnel is things like testimonials reviews, so that people can understand like from from somebody who’s just like me, you know, talking about situations that they’re in problems that have been solved by me or by you, you know, depending on the advertiser, so it is also remarketing, but it’s not bottom of funnel yet, because all they’ve done is given me a signal top of funnel that they’ve been interested in like a piece of content or things like that. I don’t know where they’re at yet, so I need to take some time to nurture them, but I give them an off ramp always towards a buy, right? So I’m not just giving them content with no with no hours. Middle of funnel is really nurturing with an off ramp towards fast tracking to become a customer. Alright, so you always want to give them the, hey, if you sell by webinar, or if you sell by a, you know, a sales consultation, or if you have an order button like you want to give people an off ramp to be able to buy from you who are ready now. But you don’t want to make it so in their face that you know, you turn the people off that are still way left on the on the timeline. Does that make sense?

Casey Stanton
For sure does. I think that a lot of sales just generally speaking is direct. And it’s just Bye, bye. Yeah. And people say no, not right now. It’s a bad time. You comment during dinner, whatever. And you’re offering additional ways to continue the conversation that doesn’t have the same pressure?

Bob Regnerus
Well, you nailed it. A lot of times it’s no not now. Just that that’s different than No, not never. Right? Sure. I mean, you definitely get no not Nevers, and you hopefully they opt out. And they you know, like they ignore your stuff, because they’re never gonna buy from you. But most people, it’s No, not now. Well, okay. So to me, the advertiser that has the the wisdom, and the ability to invest in that person to nurture them is always going to win that business. Now, Brian curse, it was funny, I was talking to him, you know, he gets people on his list, sometimes two, three years, before they buy something. Now, look, Brian was a much more aggressive marketer back in the day at boardroom, you know, now he has like high end coaching and things like that, but he’s willing to, like go out and buy people right now to get him on his email list and develop relationship with them. Okay? A lot of marketers aren’t in that position. But the idea is strong here is that, you know, if you have something of value to somebody you’re willing to invest to get them in and create relationship with them. Especially if you’re in that type of niche where you’re like you’re teaching people or you have services, like there’s just this big trust factor that you have to overcome, and people are looking for, they’re looking for integrity these days, you know, as we come out of 2020, I think if anybody has learned anything, is that if you’re selling anything that is related to people’s trust in you, like, you need to be authentic, you need to be vulnerable, and you need to be willing to invest in them and bring them along. The people that do that have invested in trust, have had a great 2020. I mean, I’m not really shy to say, Casey, I had a really great 2020 this year. Yeah, I did write a book, but our video production company, we’d spent a couple years really growing that company and building rapport and trust with people. And as soon as COVID hit, we got busy, because people knew that we do remote video. So kind of like you and I are doing this. So we invested in relationship with people. And they told us No, not now. I mean, had a lot of conversations like no, I’m not ready. Well, guess what, in April this year, in May of this year, we were as busy as we ever been. Because now they were ready. You know, they were ready for remote video solutions. So I think you have to really have this mindset of like, I’m in this for the long haul. You know, if you’re if you’re in the market, where it’s like, Hey, I have to just churn sales through it, this is not going to be as effective for you. I mean, I’m obviously talking to a segment of the market where you have something that’s worthwhile investing in customers, this is going to be just overwhelmingly an exceptional strategy for you.

Casey Stanton
So tell me how specifically a company is investing. You’re talking about Kurt’s So Brian is doing stuff like sending out emails, maybe he’s doing video calls, something like that, or you can come and just chat or something. But what are some other tangible examples of ways that folks can start building deeper trust and accepting a longer gestation from certain prospects?

Bob Regnerus
Yeah, I mean, you know, definitely one way if you’re, if you’re in the business of coaching or consulting, you know, you’re in the content business, right? So you, you have to be demonstrating your expertise. So what you’re investing in is either getting people to like read your blog, read your emails, or watch your videos, you know, a lot of consultants and coaches who are a little bit more kind of media focus are building up tremendous YouTube channels. I deal a lot in the mortgage industry. And I see a lot of mortgage professionals, real estate agents, like taking time, these are local folks who are putting together great videos on YouTube. They’re consistently putting people out there, they’re growing their subscriber base, and they’re using other media to like drive people in so they’re driving people through like a Facebook ad to get them to their to their website, drive them over to YouTube to watch videos. So they’re investing in subscribers, they’re investing in readers. That’s, that’s a way to win.

Casey Stanton
He goes I see those videos and I love the YouTube videos, because you can see how many views there are. There are some people who have 200 views. 500 views 600 views on a video and like, you think that’s small because some of these YouTubers have millions, right talking about you just had a one to one with 600 people It’s hard to beat right?

Bob Regnerus
It is hard to beat. We get really enamoured by big numbers, right. That’s kind of how we are, especially in the US. But you know, if you’re consistent and you have a look, you know, they used to say, hey, if you have a list of 1000 people, like you could generate a healthy income year after year, right? So why not? Why wouldn’t it be the same thing with a YouTube channel or Facebook following, right? And all we’re saying here is you be consistent. Like if you’re, if you want, if you want to be like invested in email, you’re a good email writer, do that, you know, be a blogger, do an email, if you’re much better turn a camera on and, and doing content that way, then do a YouTube channel, do live Instagrams or Facebook Lives, but like, have haven’t have an investment in some sort of media that you’re comfortable with that builds a following. And, you know, you’re, you know, especially if you’re like, in the coaching or consulting niche, like, you’re not going to have that feast or famine strategy, right? We’re, like, Oh, I’m on a client’s or a client, fire me, I gotta find a new client. Well, if you constantly are putting content out there, and you’re using something like Facebook, to grow it, you’re gonna have you’re gonna have much less of that upset ups and downs, you’re gonna have people coming in, you’re gonna have a waiting list. People be ready to do business with you type of things. So it’s really about it. You know, when I, when I say is, it’s like, you know, the Facebook ad is just kind of the first thing you’re thinking about. But you’re really if you’re really building, you’re really building an asset for for the future. It’s longer term investing. It’s not a short term, short sale.

Casey Stanton
It’s a good point. And I think the litmus test of having a waitlist is great. Like, if you have a waitlist, something is working. Very much so. Right. And I think it’s very common for businesses, for people to say, I want to build my business to be able to handle this amount of need to serve this many clients. Yeah. But they don’t consider how they’re going to generate that. So they go on, they have too much supply, not enough demand. And as you know, it’s just it’s just better to live in a world of excess supply or excess demand. And then build the supply as needed.

Bob Regnerus
And then let me switch us over to the e commerce side. So like, if you’re running a Shopify store, you’ll be going alright, that’s great for a coach, right. But here’s what I’ve, I’ve worked with, like dozens of people over the last few years who have turned ecommerce products into lifestyle brands. Okay, so you may be selling 20 $30 products, $50 products, whatever it is, with with fairly low margins, let’s just say, but if you can build a lifestyle brand now, like all of a sudden, you have you have some equity built up. All right, and you know, maybe you’re available for sale, right, your customer list or your community is it’s definitely an asset that somebody want to buy. But it also gives you something where people can now go, Hey, you know, I like following Casey because he runs this this fitness store. And yeah, maybe he sells like, you know, fitness products and things like that. But when you’re a lifestyle brand, you open yourself up to affiliate opportunities, you open yourself up to new product generation, like your goal is an e commerce store is not to sell a bunch of widgets from China, right? Lifestyle brand is people will follow it. So, like p90x. Okay, we’re kind of going back in time here.

Casey Stanton
To the great direct response marketers.

Bob Regnerus
S let’s use a How about peloton. Okay? So peloton sells exercise equipment. But if you really understand what they’re doing, they’re selling a lifestyle. Alright, it’s becoming a way of life type of thing. Okay, so so that’s what you’re thinking about. I’ve got a client in the food industry. It’s it’s, it’s based out of Atlanta, they serve the Atlanta metro area, it’s farm to table. Well, they they’re building a lifestyle brand. It’s around people, like they want to know where their meat and vegetables come from, they want to know the name of the farmer, and his wife and his two kids. They like that, and they’re paying premium prices for that food because they don’t, you know, especially now, they don’t have to go to the grocery store. They don’t have to worry about you know, safety is a big deal. Like they’re building a lifestyle brand around a local regional food company. Okay, that’s what we’re talking about. They’re not just selling food, they’re selling, they’re selling a way of life. And so you can do all kinds of content around that, you know, we’ve got, we’ve done interviews with the farmer, we’ve done interviews with, you know, the people that have purchased it, like the people that buy this food from this company, like they’re raving fans, I mean, they’re on social media, like bragging about the food delivery, you know, they got their half a cow delivered this this month, right. And they’ve got a freezer full of food for the next three, four months. That’s That’s what I’m talking about. You know, you should, you know, I again, I I don’t want to dismiss the fact that you can, like buy a product from China or overseas and sell it at at a at a markup like, sure. That’s great. You know, I’m not against it. And that’s getting zapped, though, right?

Casey Stanton
You’re gonna get competitors from that, like, that’s what long term is building a brand.

Yeah. So I tell I tell this story in the book and this is just what you know, it’s really kind of the client that got me launched into the Facebook status, so to speak. But it was a brand called bolder band headbands. JD and Amy krouse. Amy developed this headband in, in 2013. She was she was a mom, she’s a crossfitter. And she she had she says this, I’ll say she has a funny shaped head. And the headbands that she bought in the store kept flying off her head. So she’s like, there’s got to be a better way. Right? That’s what that’s what a great entrepreneur says, right, Casey is there’s got to be a better way. So she goes and buys a bunch of different pieces of fabric soza together, tries them out and find something that works. And she wears it. And then her friends at the gym were like, Hey, what’s that? She’s like, well, I kind of sewed it. So let me so she so some for her friends and they all like it. And then she’s, you know, she’s she’s her and her husband entrepreneurial. They’re like, well, maybe we could sell these. So they started selling them locally. And it worked. They got in contact with me. And it’s very serendipitous story, how we got in contact, but they contacted me. And at that time, I was looking for some clients to do Facebook ads for and I said, Hey, you know, we’re going to do this. But before I even ran a Facebook ad, here’s what I told her. I said, Look, you’ve got a headband. Alright, headbands are commodities and anybody is going to knock this off if you’re successful, but here’s the difference. They cannot knock off your story. Okay, we are going to tell your story. And we’re going to put you front and centre of this brand. And I said, you’re gonna have people trying to knock you off, but they’ll never beat you. And that ended up being true. They at their peak, they were an eight figure company selling $25 headbands. Why? And we built it based on I put the I have a link to this video in my book. It’s basically Hi, I’m Amy krouse. I’m a mom, I’m a crossfitter. And you know, I wanted to buy I wanted to get a headband that wouldn’t slip off my head when I exercise and it would soak the sweat out of my eyes. And we just put together this really simple videos 30 seconds. And again, really simple. But it told her story. And we ended up building a huge Facebook presence for her a large Instagram following. And people were attracted to Amy, the founder, it was a lifestyle brand. So they were able to introduce new products, affiliate arrangements, they could do events, they could do all these things around a $25 headband. That’s what I’m talking about. That’s what you’re looking for as an e commerce provider.

Yeah, that makes sense. I love that. I want to go back to what you were saying about this, this kind of mid funnel stuff, but just get an example. So you talked about that video there which is like the story video, which is wasn’t a hard retargeting video, right? Right. For e commerce. You said you had a video and it told their story. I mean, that’s, that’s great. What about for like a coach or consultant? What are they going to do for their like, middle of funnel remarketing,

Best thing for somebody like that, as a case study, we like to we like to put case study either written case studies or video case studies. Because what you’re able to do is then demonstrate your expertise. And a good case study will will address the scepticism that somebody has about you or your industry or the or, or address the lack of confidence they have that their problem can be solved. A good case study will put somebody in front of potential customers that look sound and feel just like them. So that when they start to tell their story, so, you know, before I met Casey, I was this this this, okay? But then we started working together. And you know, here’s what happened and you give you give tangible, like evidence that my problem was solved. That’s a very simple case study, by the way, but that’s the type of thing where people are like, Huh, so it’s much different than me going, I help clients do this, this and this, right. I could say, you know, I help people create video ads, and we promote them on Facebook, and they get 10 to one return on adspend. Like, I can say that all day long. But if I turn around and put one of my clients on video, and they say, Hey, you know, before I started working with Bob, you know, I had losing campaign after losing campaign after losing campaign, Bob came in, fix the structure of our count, worked on the ad creative and turn the losing campaign into a positive campaign. In fact, it’s returning 10 to one now and it’s growing. Like I couldn’t say that and and convince people but that…

Lievable that is it just through the roof.

Bob Regnerus
Yeah. And you know, if you can show screenshots you can do these types of things. So we love for for an expert, you know, that type of that type of person. We love to put case studies in there. Now if you’re an e commerce brand, okay. The very best thing you could do is have conversations with people on the website. So the chat button, right? If you have chat or messenger on your site, you are going to know the top five questions, the top five things that people ask about your product, right? So you guys work with that client and discover that shipping was a big problem. Okay, so what you want to do there is you want to put a piece of content from them that absolutely says like, Look, we guarantee the lowest shipping rates in the industry. And you put proof of that, well, boom, you’ve just answered objective an objection rather, all right? Maybe it was, Hey, I’m not sure I’m gonna get my product in time, or I’m not sure that it’s going to be the you know, it’s not going to, it’s not going to solve the exact problem that that I have, you know, you pre you create content around that and push that middle funnel to answer that objective and remove that as a as an excuse for them to not buy from you.

Casey Stanton
I love it. I love it. I think that that’s that’s spot on. So it’s identifying those FAQs, or their common objections, if you can, any kind of sales position, you know the objections, if you don’t know them. next card, write them down over the course of two weeks. And then that becomes the content that you’re suggesting in video or in like a typical Facebook post. That’s an ad.

Well, I like I like the power of really good ad copy with really good video. I mean, we run a video marketing company. So like, I’m kind of biassed a video. By the way, I’ll tell you why I started the company with with Brandon my business partner. So I was I was in Austin, Texas at Facebook headquarters. 2016. I’m sitting in a meeting with a bunch of other advertisers. And every presentation is like video, this video that I remember the woman who’s in charge of Instagram got up there and said, you know, we just want you to understand that that Instagram is now a video platform. I’m like, What? Like like Instagrams bunch of pictures like, no, it’s a video platform, like, Huh. And then then a guy from Facebook got up there. And he’s like, yeah, you’re gonna notice that we’re making a big shift in this is late 2016. He goes, you’re going to see over the next year that our platform is going to shift to prioritising video content. So they’re literally saying, if you have video content, we’re going to prioritise it. So I left the meeting I called Brandon, I said, Hey, we’re going to start this company. And you know, obviously, we’ve done really well with it. So Facebook prefers video. I think video is absolutely exceptional for people that absorb content and mobile devices, which is 95% of the internet these days. Right? I mean, it just just watch if you if you have young kids, I don’t care if they’re three years old, if they’re my my oldest is 21. Today, like they prioritise video content, they watch tik tok videos, they watch YouTube videos, they’re not doing a lot of reading. We need to understand that right? We need to understand that video is king. It’s prioritised by platforms. And I personally see much higher lift when I combine really good ad copy with really good video.

Yeah, that makes a tonne of sense. Yep, this is an incredibly helpful and I’ve learned a lot, I I’m reminded of the value of the funnel. And it’s just so easy, depending on what you’re selling, but if you’re selling like a high ticket thing, it’s really easy just to make that single Facebook ad offer and drive the few people in and they’re gonna buy it and you can you could fill up your pipeline pretty quickly. But you’re saying down the funnel, it’s really critical that you have that you’re able to collect all these other people that are maybe solution unaware or problem unaware. And I think going back to Schwartz’s stuff, his work is just like, it’s the right answer. Yeah, we can like come up with new new ways to describe this, but someone else wrote about it. And he’s right, right.

Bob Regnerus
Yeah, I mean, look, there’s there’s a lot of principles that are timeless. You know, it’s funny when you when you get asked, you know, Perry aceveda. To write this. Perry Marshall asked me to write this current version of the book, it’s really kind of daunting to write a book about a media that changes so quickly. In fact, the the user interface so from the time I agreed to do it to the time we actually got it out to print was 19 months, the user interface changed completely twice during that timeframe. Facebook’s ad, their ad interface changed twice. All right, changed large twice and over in 18 months, essentially. So we had to redo screenshots, like twice, okay. But one of the things that was really important as Perry and I sat down to do the book was like, we want this book to be applicable even if the screenshots go out of date. So the book is filled less with tactical stuff about how to you know, move switches and die. rolls around. It’s more about fundamental advertising. So, you know, like in chapter three, we get into retargeting right away as a strategy not as a tactic. Like, we want you to get a quick win right away. So I look at a lot of accounts, you know, I’ll go in and audit an account and I’ll see like no retargeting, it’s 2020 it’s gonna be 2021 and there’s no retargeting at all. So it’s like, okay, so I’m gonna just interest audience right there ad campaign is just people who like the rock or just just cold audiences just going after cold traffic going after cold traffic, wildly unprofitable, but they’re gonna make it up in volume, right? And it’s funny, we laugh about it, like, you know what, you just assume that everybody’s doing retargeting, but they’re not. It’s, it’s really sad.

Casey Stanton
I definitely assume everyone’s doing retargeting like, it’s the easiest thing to set up. It doesn’t take long to set it up. And it’s like, it makes the most sense to do.

Yeah, you know, I guess people either don’t think about it, or they don’t want to take the time that I personally think that everybody’s goal is, Hey, I just want to scale my business. And the way to scale a business is to go to cold traffic. So I’ve tried, I’m trying to I’m trying to educate the public a little bit and say, like, Look, now there’s a better way to do this. There. You know, it used to be this not every business could could advertise on Facebook. If you were if you were a problem aware business, like a plumber. You know, like, like a industry like that. It doesn’t make a lot of sense for you necessarily to advertise on Facebook. But now with retargeting any business could advertise on Facebook, even if the only thing you do is retargeting. I mean, if you’re a pure Google business, like hey, you know, if somebody goes to Google and says, This is the only way they’re going to find you, like you should, you should be doing your targeting. You know?

Yeah, that makes easy. This is this has been great. There. It reminds me of something I learned from farnam Street and they he says master the things that are slow to change. Oh, right. remarketing as a as a strategy is slow to change. Right? remarketing used to be the guy at the jewellery store, who every time you walk by, he’d nag you, right?

Bob Regnerus
Yeah. Primitive for retargeting.

Casey Stanton
Yeah, but that’s like, that’s what it was. It was like follow up, right? We call it retargeting now, but it was always a follow up process. And now we’re automating follow up, and we’re getting closer to the person and in a more intimate place in them only when they’re downtown walking by you’re now getting them when they’re in their bedroom on their cell phone. Yeah. So if you master that slow to change, and there’s plenty of people that will go master the faster change, right? Like, you know, the people that are like, latest and greatest on Google’s threat algorithm update. Cool, man. Like if that’s your thing? Yeah. Thank you. We need you. Yeah, that is gonna come with, I think that those those types of faster change come with highs and lows. really dramatic. You make a lot of money really quickly, because you can, you know, arbitrage or you can, you know, exploit some kind of change. But then it’s gone. And you might have bet everything on it. The upside though is you’re saying like, everyone should be doing retargeting because you set it up, and it’s kind of good for a long time.

Bob Regnerus
Well, It’s evergreen. Like, I mean, essentially, you’re you’re retargeting people for a fixed amount of time. So you know, maybe you have a seven or 14 day window. Well, one of the things you love as a marketer is churn, right? So there’s people coming into that audience and people leaving it every single day. You don’t have to change it up, because you’re not going to fatigue them at all.

Casey Stanton
Let’s dive into that real quick. Is like a closing thing here. Oh, what’s the length of a retargeting window that you like seven days? 14 days, 21 days? And what is the frequency? or how many times did someone see the ad in that amount of time?

Bob Regnerus
So typical kind of e commerce seven to 14 days is kind of your max. But the more complex and the more expensive your product is, you’re going to know your sales cycle. So if you know that you need to extend your sales cycle several months, then you want to be extending your retargeting window, now, you’re not going to hit them every single day necessarily. So you might hit them for a time, like real close to when you know, they first engaged with you. But then you could timeout and say, Hey, you know, maybe I’m gonna wait till the day 30 to kind of do a campaign again, then maybe wait till day 45 you know, you could time that out. So if you’re in a much more complex, longer tail thing, then you can certainly go out as far as you’re up to 180 days, in fact, okay,

Casey Stanton
Technologically though, how do you do that? How do you not display for 170 days?

Bob Regnerus
Very tactically it’s it’s a website, custom audience, and you specify how many days so you’re going to create one audience that maybe is a seven day audience, and that you’re going to create another audience that’s 30 days. But here’s what you do. You can create, you can stack it you can say hey, I want to reach everyone. Buddy, who’s day 30. All right within the 30 days, but don’t show it to anybody who’s in the seven day God. So you can use inclusion exclusion logic, but I demonstrate that in the book in case people want to know how to do it, but that that’s exactly how you do it. Now frequency. So what what what we’d like to do is we add a minimum will show we’ll try to show an ad to somebody twice in a given day. So, you know, we’ll especially in like a seven day or 14 day retargeting, we want to put two impressions for another person as much as we can. I like to say, you know, once you get kind of like beyond seven, like of an ad is getting like seven impressions in the newsfeed I’m not worried about like, right hand side or audience network, but like in the newsfeed, once you get to above seven on a particular ad, then people are blind to it. So you want to have multiple pieces of creative that you can cycle through set, if they see this, you want to have something else you can show them. So I start to get a little nervous when it’s around seven. But inside of that you’re really fine, especially if it’s a very short window.

Casey Stanton
Makes sense. I mean, we talked about eight, it takes eight to 12 touches to get a sale, right? Eight here at a minimum.

Bob Regnerus
Yeah, just don’t be lazy and shown the same. Eight things, you know what I mean? Yeah, I mean, try to try to create some diversity and and create more content. So if you’re going to touch him a times, man, if you could show them like six or eight pieces of content over that time, you’re going to be really effective, because maybe one thing doesn’t click with somebody, but somebody else will…

Casey Stanton
That wasn’t a question I had is the FAQ. But I had that other question. And that’s the one that got me to

Bob Regnerus
Yes, exactly. Exactly.

Casey Stanton
Yeah. That’s, that’s great. So, Bob, this was a test to see if you actually knew Facebook. Like you’ve passed? Yeah, this has been great. So I learned a lot. And again, I’m reminded of like the value of deep funnel marketing. So thank you for for sharing it. You got your book out. So this is Facebook advertising the fourth generation. So it’s the ultimate guide to Facebook advertising the fourth generation, and you wrote this with Perry Marshall. And I started, I got hired at a company, like an info product company years ago. And the first thing that I was given was the Definitive Guide to Google AdWords by parents. So awesome. three ring binder, right? I don’t. And that’s when I started. And that’s where I got started. So I’ve got a lot of respect for Perry. And I think it says a lot about you to be to be working with him. So you’ve got the book, and what is it launched? Or is it launching?

Bob Regnerus
Oh, it’s launched, it came out. So it’s fresh as of October 2020. And we keep it fresh, there’s a lot of chances for you to get resources in the book. So you know, you you get the book and there’s a resource section you sign up, you get all kinds of great updates. So that’s, that’s cool. Yeah, grab the book at what’s the website? Yeah, I mean, it’s available at all retailers, of course, but I would love people to go to https://www.UltimateFB.com. And what I have there is obviously a link to get the book on Amazon. But I invited a bunch of co authors to come in with me. So these are like, you know, obviously Perry is a big part of the book. But people like Brian Kurtz, Ryan deiss, Jeff Walker, Dennis, you, Mollie Pittman, they all contributed names.

Casey Stanton
She was a digital marketer, Ryan deiss is just a king.

Bob Regnerus
So what’s kind of cool is, you know, I’ve known these I know these individuals for a while, so I kind of knew I kind of knew them before they were a big deal. So it was kind of cool, you know, obviously, to get them to contribute to the book, because they’re just amazing. So what I did I interviewed, there’s actually 10 interviews on that page. So obviously, I’m a good marketer, I’m gonna ask for your email address. But when you do that, I’m gonna I have basically 10 hours worth of interview available for people and I really enjoy doing I mean, like, I love doing this. I know you love doing your podcast, I just love having conversations about marketing and life with people. So yeah, if you go there, obviously, you’ll get a link to the book. But you get to hear a cool interview with Brian Kurtz Ryan deiss. We talked about some things that maybe people haven’t heard him talk about before. So I’ll leave that as a little tease.

Casey Stanton
Cool, man. Well, that’s great. So https://www.UltimateFB.com to grab your book, The Ultimate Guide to Facebook Advertising. Well, Bob, it was great chatting with you. Thank you for taking some time out of your day out of your son’s 21st birthday. That’s a big deal. Yeah, hopefully you’re gonna go crack a beer with him.

Bob Regnerus
It’s a her but that’s our excuse. She’s, She’s gonna have a margarita. Perfect.

Casey Stanton
All right, Bob. We’ll go chat with you. Thank you.

Bob Regnerus
Thanks, Casey. Appreciate it.