Transcript:

00:00:00 Casey: In this episode, we’re to go through part two of this webinar that I hosted just a couple of weeks ago with about a dozen women that are inside of the accelerator inside of boardrooms. So these are our most successful members inside of the CMOx accelerator. And they’re going to share with you kind of what it’s like to be a fractional CMO. And they come from all walks of life. Some of them are successful C-suite former full-time employees, like senior C-suite level executives. Others are agency owners. Some others are like chronically unemployable like me, right? Never really held down a standard job in that way. And kind of everything in between.

00:00:37 Casey: And they’re gonna just share their thoughts, their experience. I also dive into some fun laser coaching here towards the end when we started to get into the Q and A’s. And there are some questions that people were asking that I coach them on. And I think that my angle on it is a little unique and I think it’s really worth listening to. So be sure to stick around to the end of the episode to hear those pieces because I really think that they’re valuable in helping to make sure that you don’t have all of these preconceived notions about what’s possible and instead you really kind of witness what’s possible based on what these women are doing. All right, let’s get to it.

00:01:11 Casey: Marketers of the world, why do we work hard to solve small problems? Why do we reinvent ourselves and our clients over and over? And why are we giving away marketing strategy for free? With advancements in AI, we’re all seeing the marketing department shrink from the bottom up. And companies need you to serve them as their fractional chief marketing officer. It’s time to solve bigger problems and bring home a bigger paycheck. It’s time to create the lifestyle we deserve and to make a greater impact. This is the Fractional CMO Show and I’m Casey Stanton. Join me as we explore this growing industry and learn to solve bigger problems as marketing leaders. The Fractional CMO Show is sponsored by CMOx, the number one company to teach you how to attract, convert and serve high paying fractional CMO clients on your terms.

00:02:08 Casey: There’s a question, Courtney, in the chat. I just want to address it. I’d love to hear some opinions on it. It’s about pricing. So Leah says pricing can be tough because it’s hard to know what other candidates are pricing themselves at. And it’s tough to know whether to price yourself to not land over or under higher prices equal more pressure and higher expectations. So I disagree with that fundamentally. I think that that’s like not an experience that we have. I think that is a commodity experience. So one thing that we talk about in the accelerator is pick a car like a fancy car.

00:02:37 Casey: If you go to a Porsche dealership, there’s a price for the car. It doesn’t matter how much money you make. That’s the price of the car. And if you want the car, you pay the price. That’s fine. So first thing that you do is you establish your own rates. My next client I’m going to get will pay me $10,000. Will pay me $5,000. Whatever your number is, it doesn’t matter. But you set that and then you find the client that pays it. But I want to hear from you all what happens when you price higher? What has been your expectation as you price higher?

00:03:04 Brandi: I just have to share this because I’ve you know, I’ve been dabbling, I’ve got multiple clients and different things. I’ve got some projects, I’ve got two engaged fractionals and I’ve just like, my the clients that pay me the most I do the less for. You know, and it’s just like, wow. And so anywho I wanted to share that because-

00:03:28 Casey: Do you mean less labor or do you do less impact? Is it just less time? What is that?

00:03:33 Brandi: Yeah, that’s a… I love that. Less time. I mean, but I’m creating impact. And so that’s, I never really realized the level of the impact that I’m creating. It’s just my less time, less emotional labor, less time in meetings, less that and doing more of the things that I enjoy doing and have more impact on. So yeah.

00:03:55 Casey: Just like, just imagine someone piloting a cruise ship, all the people on board, all they do is this and everyone moves. It doesn’t take a lot of effort to turn the wheel a little bit, but that’s going to dodge the iceberg or whatever.

00:04:09 Mandy: I think the clients that, you know, are paying us more are the ones that value what we’re doing. They value our expertise, they value our opinion. We’re not pricing down because they need the founders need to meet us there. We’re pricing up because they already understand what value we’re bringing to the table.

00:04:31 Stacie: Yeah. A funny story a couple of months ago, but I was on a call and I wanted the client, but I more wanted it to help another person. I was going to help me with the client blah blah blah. But they were like, “Do you have time for us?” You know, you’re more on the expensive side and kind of like, “Well, I’m busy, but yeah, we can fit you in,” and have this experience literally five minutes after the call, “We want you, can you start tomorrow?” Like sometimes being that more polished, not overpriced, but like you are the premium option. That’s going to make people want you more. And to your point, Brandi, same, my most expensive clients, bigger impact, less like keyboard time, right? So-

00:05:11 Brandi: Always less demanding.

00:05:13 Stacie: Yeah. They know what they’re paying for and they’re drafting with what, you’re going to do.

00:05:18 Mandy: Yeah, they’re not questioning what you’re doing. They’re just saying, “Yeah, go for it.”

00:05:22 Stacie: Yeah.

00:05:22 Casey: There’s a confidence that we have when we pay a premium price that we know that what we’re getting is the best. And then we can like as a business owner, I cannot make… I won’t have to second guess like buy once cry once I’m going to hire Stacie. I know she’s expensive, but I’m just going to just like take all of the responsibility of marketing and give it to her. And if she screws it up, she’s out. But like, I don’t have to have any other hand on marketing as a business owner if Stacie is in complete control.

00:05:52 Brandi: Hey, Casey, once upon a time, one of the things that you said was I would rather have somebody, you know, say no to your services on price. Like that you said something along those lines. And that was something that completely changed my perspective.

00:06:09 Casey: So here’s the nuance of it. When you go through a conversation with someone and you’re like, you’re trying to sell, right? Like ultimately, you’re selling, but like also you’re kind of buying, you’re buying the client. You want the right client for you. You want to get to a point where the client says, “How can you help me?” Like there’s a natural transition in the call. Okay, Brandi, well, how can you help me? Cause you’ve asked them a bunch of questions. You understand where they are. They transition say, “Well, how do you help me?” Thank you for asking. This is the way I show up to businesses. Now like, great. What does that cost? And you’re like, this is the price. The best answer you can get after that is that makes sense.

00:06:43 Casey: Like to get someone of your caliber, of your expertise, who’s going to focus on these problems for businesses like mine, it makes sense that you charge whatever. Now their ability to pay it, who knows? They could be going through a divorce. Their CFO could have embezzled a bunch of money. They could be flushed with cash and want to hire you today. Like you don’t know where they are, but you get to that point of just positioning yourself and the price, they agree to it. And maybe they move forward, maybe they don’t. To me, that’s pitching someone who’s sellable, you have to pitch them.

00:07:14 Casey: And then it’s like, do they actually have the money? Can they do it or not? And sometimes they’ll ask you something creative, like help me find the money. And you’ll need to spend a little bit of time digging through what’s their current marketing spend on what’s their team spend on? Are they wasting money? Can it reallocated so that they can afford Brandi plus all the stuff you want to do?

00:07:31 Courtney: Casey, on that note, you have a whole course dedicated to politely pushing back when companies say I can’t find the money. I think it’s called “Help Me Find The Money.”

00:07:40 Casey: Yeah. [inaudible].

00:07:43 Courtney: And I think as women, we’re so conditioned to be amenable and easygoing that we’re used to when someone says, “Do you have a little bit of negotiating room? Can we just wiggle it down a thousand dollars?” We’ll say, “Sure. As long as I’m getting the experience, as long as I’m building the relationship and I’m helping you.” But you really helped us in that course specifically, or me specifically say, “Well, let’s take a look together. And like, where can we find that money,” so that we’re on the same page because as you pointed out, it’s much harder to go forward than backwards, right? You have to start where you feel comfortable for a price than to say, “Okay, we’re three months into this, now give me more money.” They’re gonna say, no.

00:08:20 Casey: For the same work, right? For the same hours, like no way. Yeah, it’s really hard to do that. Yeah, I think that that’s a good point. The way that you work with a fractional CMO, as you guys know, is you’re their partner. Like you’re not just a consultant. don’t like consultants. Consultants are a four-letter word. They come in, they give an expensive report that everyone rolls their eyes at, and it doesn’t get implemented. And then everyone’s like, “I can’t believe you wasted $40,000 on that idiot. I could have done that,” right? We don’t want to be consultants. We want to actually create change. But when we do it, instead of like spending whatever, I mean, you ladies are like expensive.

00:08:54 Casey: If someone hired you full time, right? Hundreds of thousands of dollars. The company doesn’t need it. They need you for 10 hours a week that are fighting like hell for them for just 10 hours. That’s like a heavy Monday, kind of middle Tuesday, Wednesday, a little lighter Thursday, Friday, you’re kind of off. Like that’s how you focus the team. You focus the team hard at the start of the week and you get them to solve the big problems. You don’t need to be there for the other 30, 40 hours of the week. So you just charge… I think the rate is 50% of your full-time rate for 25% of the time. That’s like an easy math on it to get you to a nice level of replacing your income at 20 hours a week or doubling your income if you want to work 40 hours a week.

00:09:36 Courtney: I want to, if that’s okay, to circle back to Mandy’s theme of confidence. And specifically, I’ve worked in industries with the old boys club, right? So I haven’t always felt the most confident, particularly in the room with other females. And when I ask myself why that is, I have to believe that I’ve been positioned to constantly be competitive with them, right? What do they have that I don’t? It was even brought up today that you’re constantly pinned against each other. Laura said that. So, I would like to discuss here what Casey has said in a former class too, and that we are not competition with each other despite we all offer the same service.

00:10:20 Courtney: We are not the same human, even if we’re in the same industry for the exact same revenue generation, the exact same industry, the exact same location in this country or other countries. You are completely different humans that offer different things. And if a client chooses A over B, it is not personal. It’s just a better fit. And it’s taken me this long in my life to say like, if that doesn’t work, I have to believe it’s for a bigger and better reason than I know right now. And the right one will come along. And that’s another reason to just continue charging what you charge and sticking to your guns on your contract. But if anyone else has.

00:10:57 Lisa P: I have a great story and it’s with Brandi. We were going after the same client and we got on the phone together and had a conversation and it was lovely. Just lovely. I didn’t feel competitive at all. I learned a lot and I didn’t get it. I don’t know if she went forward with it, but I think it was just so inspiring to have a conversation and going after the same thing and not feel that, “Oh my God, I’m going to gain this information and I’m not going to tell her.” And it was just transparent and helpful and wishing her the best. She wishing me the best and however it landed, it landed. And it was so different from the world I grew up, which was male dominated industries, very high growth industries and very competitive and dog eat dog world. And it just, was a lovely shift.

00:11:53 Brandi: Yeah, and I want to just add to that I didn’t get the client Lisa. Neither of us, but I think it wasn’t a fit for either of us. He wasn’t willing to pay. Anywho, no, I think that’s kind of what I was referring to is the freedom I posted in the chat. What I love about being a fractional is the freedom and a lot of people look at that and think time freedom. But it’s not about that. It’s about exactly this… is just – I’m a bit kind of woo woo. But it’s like those clients will find you and you will be like kind of the magnet and a perfect match there, right?

00:12:25 Brandi: And so exactly to what Lisa’s saying, it’s like we are strong and confident in our own abilities and our own experiences. And if you know, and we’re going to present ourselves to that client in our best foot forward. But if it’s not a fit for them, that’s okay. I feel such a weight lifted off and then I know, just that piece there is the competition piece isn’t there at all, right? Whereas in corporate, it is a little bit like you’re climbing the ladder or you’re constantly against others. Like I know in the business world, you’re just constantly trying to win, win, win. And so this is just much more of a I can only focus on myself and what it is that I know and the value that I offer. And then it’s just, what will be will be.

00:13:11 Jessie: BrandI, just like a cherry on top of that, right? To your point, if you were in corporate, there is one CMO at your company and you’re all kind of fighting for it. If you are a fractional CMO, there are many companies that you can serve, right? And so I think that level of competition gets a little bit removed or reduced.

00:13:29 Mandy: Yeah, and I think the network that has been built here amongst the accelerator is invaluable. We’re all fractionals, we’re all working on our own. You know, I always call the people I’ve met through this network as my colleagues. They provide advice on a daily basis. They’re not my competition. They’re the people I work with every day.

00:13:54 Lisa O: We kind of wanted to go back to Courtney’s thing about the validating. And I think for me, when I was in corporate, you’re always looking for your boss or the next level up or whatever to validate you and your performance. And you’re always living on everybody else’s kind of opinion and I’m finding for myself is fractional. I’m not seeking that verbal praise from my clients because I’m looking at the data and I’m like, I’m nailing it. I know I’m rocking it. I’m getting verbal validations when I get referral, when I ask for testimonials and that kind of thing. And they’re saying great, wonderful things and that feels good. But I’m almost not needing that verbal validation anymore because I know I’m seeing the data, what I’m doing, and I’m distracted by trying to get approval from peers and coworkers and the next level up.

00:14:49 Mandy: You’re no longer held to a performance review, Lisa.

00:14:54 Stacie: When they pay their invoice, that’s your validation.

00:14:57 Lisa O: I get the check every month, yeah.

00:15:02 Erin: I think to add to that marketing, even though some of the foundational principles will never change, the service level and the strategies of how we do it are dynamic and constantly changing no matter what client you’re working with. And our clients don’t necessarily understand that to the depth that they can. This group does. And it’s so validating and helpful to brainstorm with each other, talk about wins, failures, because I feel like you’re not totally doing your full marketer’s job if you’re not failing at some things and experimenting at some things and then losing. And it’s helpful to have those collaborative group conversations and help each other and uplift each other. And when you’re out of the corporate space or when you’re once removed from it, then that is very helpful. So thankful for this group, definitely for helping me with that.

00:15:54 Courtney: Thank you. Thank you all so much for your honesty and your vulnerability having this conversation. I would like to continue that when we talk about the imposter syndrome. So at what point did you say to yourself, “Nope. I am good enough. Like, nope, I’m gonna dive into that.” What was the dynamic change that triggered your mind from going like, “I don’t think I can do that,” or I see other people, maybe it’s a one day to like pulling the trigger right now and making this decision to do this, to join us.

00:16:25 Lisa O: I’ll be honest, being a single mom, if I wasn’t laid off or downsize, whatever you wanna say, I don’t know if I would have made the leap just out of the financial security at the time of, to that perception of that regular paycheck. But like so many things in life, it was the biggest blessing that could have happened to me is finding this. And the aha for me was like, well, why not believe in myself and gamble on myself? Like, if not now, when? Because it’s like, I have all this experience. I do have things to share. And so was like, “Yeah, I can do this.” And it was like, I didn’t look back once, like a minute at the, I understood what fractional was. It was like full go and I am not looking back. And so-

00:17:14 Casey: It’s a virus. Once it’s in you, you can’t get rid of it.

00:17:16 Lisa O: Yes, yes.

00:17:18 Mandy: Yeah, I was in the same boat, Lisa, but when I entered in the accelerator, I had serious imposter syndrome, serious, especially talking to other fractionals, right? That lack of confidence and being able to do this on our own is you have to get over that and get over that mindset and get to that mindset shift. And I’ve said to, Raph, who’s part of Casey’s team several times, who’s a great coach.

00:17:48 Casey: Sorry, just like for a second. Don’t we love that guy?

00:17:50 Mandy: Yeah, totally. Raph is amazing. Shout out. Big shout out to Raph.

00:17:55 Casey: Yeah. And he just had a baby. I feel like he has like a new dimension to his life.

00:17:58 Mandy: Yeah. Yeah. And he talked me through that imposter syndrome and has coached me out of that. In my opinion, I think it might be inevitable when you start this. Once you start to build that confidence, you can get over that pretty quickly.

00:18:15 Jessie: I think the other thing too, right, is inherently in taking on a job like this, you have to network, right? Because you have to be your own business development lead. And what I found is in talking to people in my network, like it is not all rosy and “Oh my God, this is amazing, everyone should hire you.” I get real constructive feedback too. But a lot of these conversations I have, people are like, yeah, wow, that’s a real need, right? And if you post something on LinkedIn, Casey knows this, I did his content generator class and it turned into a new client because people are like, oh wow, like this, we need you. And so that networking, that being out there. The more you do it, I think the more positive reinforcement you get and the more you learn to improve how you’re presenting yourself out there. And so it can really help just small wins, small LinkedIn likes, right? Nice conversations or notes to your inbox start to help you build that confidence.

00:19:06 Christy: Yeah, networking is so important. I can’t, you know, I’ve made hundreds of mistakes over the last, eight months of doing this. Hundreds of mistakes, lost lots of clients and in doing this, but you know, it’s all about learning, learning from your mistakes.

00:19:23 Lisa P: It’s part of the journey, right? It’s part of the learning journey of getting really good at what you do. You can’t, you have to make mistakes to push through to the next level in order to get really good at this is how I’ve looked at it. I embrace those learning moments to say, great, I’m not going do it again, how am I gonna get better? [inaudible] Something new comes along and I’m like, great. What do I learn and how do I get better?

00:19:52 Mandy: And I think as women were naturally more emotional, right? So we feel, we feel the ups and downs and maybe more than men. I’m, not sure honestly, Casey, but I definitely feel that roller coaster all the time, the roller coaster of emotion all the time.

00:20:11 Lauren: [crosstalk] So I read something on imposter syndrome or heard something in a podcast that imposter syndrome doesn’t actually exist. What it really is, is you as an individual feeling like you’re not welcomed in a room. And I think that kind of like turns the whole thing around to like the beginning of this discussion, which is like, are women experiencing professionally that men still aren’t besides their cat coming across their desk?

00:20:42 Casey: It’s his dinner time.

00:20:46 Lauren: Yes, because it really isn’t a reflection of you. It’s a reflection of the people that are making you feel that way. So just something to consider, because I feel like we beat ourselves up even about having a posture syndrome.

00:20:58 Brandi: One thing I want to share is talking about Raph and coaching is I know oftentimes it’s because and we’re all high performing women here. And so we tend to focus on a lot of the negative and how we can constantly improve, right? But we forget to look back at all the accomplishments and the things that we’ve done and achieved. And we forget about it. It’s very easy for us to forget about it. So I think for me in sort of the imposter syndrome, which is always there, but I think one of the things I do is just, [inaudible] take a minute, stop spiraling, look back, what have you achieved? Look at all the things that you have done. And so, and I think that’s important too. Like I kind of keep a bit of screenshots and diary and screen recordings and that kind of thing. Just to remind myself of these things, cause I tend to just move on to the next thing, right? You know, keep moving forward and forget how much I actually have achieved. So it’s my tip.

00:21:57 Kim: I would agree with that, Brandi. I think we’re in similar situations where I do the same thing. I constantly am looking back at, okay, what have I achieved? And always like my new little phrase is like just taking imperfect action.

00:22:11 Christy: And I think coming out of you know, some so many of us who came out of big corporate, especially, again, speaking from fortune 50, fortune 500 companies, you’re always told you’re not good enough, right? You’re always… the finish line gets moved. You’re always not quite good enough. You’re always fighting for that promotion. You’re fighting for that new role, the whole thing. And that can really get in your head, right? When you get into this, because you’re like, “Oh shit, what if I’m not good enough for this?” But the reality is very much like what Brandi was just saying and even Lauren, like looking back at what you’ve achieved.

00:22:43 Christy: Like if you were just to write it down on paper dispassionately and say, I’ve done A, B and C, you look at that. Like my first call with Casey, talked, he was like, holy crap, people are going to want to talk to you because of your background. And I’m like, oh, it was no big deal. It was just a VP. It wasn’t a big deal.

00:22:58 Casey: Just made $750 million in product launches over two major products.

00:23:03 Christy: Yeah. I owned $21 billion in business. Like-

00:23:07 Casey: Just no big deal.

00:23:08 Christy: No big deal. It was just what I did. It was just who I was. It didn’t feel like a big deal. But like it’s not you look at it in the scale of the work that you’ve done, even if you haven’t done work at that scale, like you have done some amazing kickass stuff. Like look at Brandi starting her own business and selling her brands. And everybody’s done some really amazing things. And everybody on this call has something that you’re amazing at and that you have achieved. So even what I did one day is I went on a walk with my dog, and I just started recording in my notes app, and just started talking about what I did. Like just, I’ve done this, I’ve done this, I’ve [inaudible] podcasts just to like go through this whole thing.

00:23:43 Christy: And then I fed it into ChatGPT. It was like, help me make this into something that makes sense. And then it helped me kind of work on building my brand and who am I and how do I talk about what I do? It was kind of fun.

00:23:56 Casey: A couple of thoughts on that, Christy is that some of the problems that we find that these clients that we have, their problems are like unbelievably stupid problems. And us solving that stupid problem makes them a lot of money. I recently started working with a client and they are paying for leads on Facebook and they’re not getting zapped into their CRM. They’re failing. They’re losing half their leads on it. You don’t have to be a genius to identify that. Right? Like I don’t have to be the smartest marketer in the world to be like, Facebook says 10 leads, CRM says five leads, something’s broken. Those little problems are the things that we can focus on.

00:24:31 Casey: We don’t have to be the people who come out with a national rebranding campaign for a Fortune 1000 company. All you need is three to five clients that pay you whatever 3 to $15,000 a year or excuse me a month. And like that is a pretty awesome lifestyle. So, I don’t want anyone to think that you have to reach to the upper echelon of being the greatest marketer ever. Certainly, I think you should always move towards getting better and better. But there’s plenty of money to be made today with your skill set.

00:24:58 Courtney: I want to quickly circle back on the concept of taking things personally, I think Mandy brought it up. And if I could give my self-advice 10 years ago, it would be what I have taken this long to learn and that other people’s actions when they reschedule a meeting, when they don’t pick up my phone call, when they send a [inaudible] my way, it has very little to do with me, if anything, and everything to do with them. What they experienced that day with April breakfast, the fight they had with their partner, you name it. And to stop internalizing everything, which is so hard as a female, because I’m like, this has to mean something, right? Their behavior means something towards me.

00:25:36 Courtney: And it usually doesn’t. So if you’ve had other experiences like that, or you just want to give a thumbs up, so everybody knows you agree with me if you do. I also don’t want to… I’ve been so engaged with this conversation. I don’t want to miss all of the incredible questions that we’ve gotten in the chat. So Casey, if you want to highlight any of those, or do you want me, you tell me.

00:25:58 Casey: Yeah, if anyone has any additional questions, let’s go ahead and [crosstalk] chat. I think everyone’s kind of doing a great job of just facilitating the questions on the side too.

00:26:08 Stacie: Courtney, I think it’s such while we’re on the questions come in It’s such a great topic to also remind us like I always have told you know people that have mentored just keep it classy because to your point no matter what’s going on your personal life like don’t put that on to someone else because like you’re probably thinking about an email that came in five years ago for no reason at all. Like, just keep it classy. And as women, I think, unfortunately, we have to keep it a little more classier than others, but you have impacts on other people. So you gotta just keep it classy.

00:26:41 Courtney: Yeah, to not make assumptions. And if you think something was for a reason to just ask the question, “Hey, noticed this email came across, you seem a little frustrated. I just want to check they’re on the same page,” and they might be like, “We are not on the same page,” but they probably will be like, “Oh, I’m sorry, I was just rushing out the door to go to lunch.”

00:27:00 Casey: Leah asked about having a portfolio. Does anyone have a portfolio? Did anyone produce a portfolio?

00:27:06 Lauren: I spent time before I joined putting one together or basically taking what I had as a portfolio when I was looking for full-time jobs and turning it into a blog. And I think it’s had almost zero impact. Maybe putting it together helped me digest all of the diverse experience that I have and helped me put my finger… I can more quickly say, “Oh, I did that project that had this result.” But the actual work product itself has very little value.

00:27:42 Lisa P: I would agree. I did a portfolio. It helped with case studies and it helped me tell my story. But other than that…

00:27:50 Courtney: I was going to say that I think the templates Casey provides us for case studies are far more relevant in pulling out and extracting the pertinent information that people want to know, right? Revenue savings run in your generation, lead generation, conversions, all of the data that you wouldn’t really see in like brochure or collateral generation that would be in your portfolio. So the really key numbers there and Casey and the team have incredible templates for us.

00:28:15 Casey: My whole thing on this is you have to sing it like a song. If I say, Courtney, what is your experience of this? And you’re like, “Let me think about it. Let me think about a time.” And then you’re like pulling it up. It’s just like, I’m losing the vibe with you. You know what I mean? It just like, doesn’t feel right. But if you’re like, “Oh yeah, I grew a company kind of similar in a different industry, but we did this and that. And these are the campaigns. We did that over the course of 12 months.” Like I can rattle off. I helped a private equity company go from $500 million in assets to $1.6 billion over 26 months while I was their fractional CMO. Boom, like that hits so hard. And that’s a big number. That’s a $1.1 billion number.

00:28:55 Casey: But there’s other numbers that I would share with other people too. Oh, I helped a life aid beverage company. They’re kind of like this style drink for CrossFit. It’s the Red Bull for CrossFit. And I helped them grow 25% month over month with digital marketing. Done, easy. And I did that one in 2012 or something. But I can still talk about those ideas. That’s the portfolio I carry with me is my ability to quickly state what I’ve done in a way that sounds like I’m singing a song.

00:29:25 Courtney: Yeah. I don’t know that myself or others would feel as comfortable singing our song if you didn’t continually force us to in your courses, right? You make us so comfortable with the uncomfortable and you hold us accountable for ourselves. Like I would never do the cold outreach that I do. I would never attend this many networking events. I would never feel comfortable spewing this many words about myself to strangers unless you really made it a normal schedule for me. So thank you.

00:29:58 Casey: Just think about all the good that each of you have on the call that you’re just bottling up and keeping inside. And it’s like, you’re not actually creating good. You’ve got these intentions, but without action, it’s not much. So just talking to people and seeing where those conversations go. I want everyone here to know that like, your success is probably like all the money, all the riches that you want are in the pockets of, I don’t know, 50 people, 20 people. Like that’s it. We’re talking about like creating over the rest of your life, relationships with like 20 people that pay you for the service that you provide. That’s it.

00:30:31 Casey: And when you think about that, there’s no one in this room that is a competitor to me or to any of you because everyone here can find 20 people that can pay them at some point over the rest of their life. And as long as your fees increase, because you solve bigger problems and you delegate everything except leadership. Like that’s the place to live, to give you the ability to command those rates, and to attract the clients to you.

00:30:57 Casey: Dana asks, “What networking events does everyone attend?” Dana is just a big picture here for you. You have to be the expert in your industry. Like what’s your industry? Is it like pet day spas? Great. Go to all the pet expo, East and West events, know all the people there. Like know it like you have a FBI task force in your office and you know every person that’s connected. Like I want you to hunt down Osama bin Laden, right? Like I want that on your wall. If you do that, you’re going to win. So like what are the events those people are at? That’s how you find the answer. And yeah, Mandy, good point there. Backyard is a good place to like, that’s it. Like if I’m, if someone’s going to hire a fractional CMO, they’re going to hire the best or the person closest to them who’s like good enough. So talking to the people in your backyard is useful.

00:31:46 Courtney: I also think one of the best pieces of advice Raph gave me when I said, “I’m going to all these coffees with former colleagues. I’m taking people out to lunch so you wouldn’t believe.” And it’s just like, I don’t know someone who needs you. I don’t know someone who could help you. And Raph helped me position it with, I’m a cool person. I like to hang out. If you could just like introduce me to one person that you think would like me and I would like, who would that be? And it doesn’t have to be a direct immediate need. But then that person introduces you to somebody else.

00:32:16 Courtney: And it really is a spiderweb and ancestral relationships, especially when you’re in deep in your niche. But just having that because it takes the pressure off of somebody to be like, I am solely responsible for your income by giving you a referral now to all you just like want to go grab a beer with somebody I know, I know someone who you might like.

00:32:37 Casey: Great. It’s not the high pressure. It’s not like every conversation you have doesn’t have to turn into a deal. But you have to get smarter. You have to understand the industry better. You have to like start mapping that out and then getting your introductions. Yeah. I love that. What a fun Raph line though. Like if there was ever a Raph line, it would be that, wouldn’t it?

00:32:53 Courtney: I like go to sleep thinking of that. Someone also asked, Mandy asked, “How many times have you been ghosted? I started to think it was just me but realized it’s not a lot personally. Who else?”

00:33:08 Casey: Oh, Christy, would you mind sharing-

00:33:10 Christy: The industry events?

00:33:12 Casey: No, the ghosting, being ghosted recently.

00:33:13 Christy: Oh, gosh. So I found… I got I got a great lead on an opportunity and had a fantastic call. I did it like a pre-email and a fantastic call with this guy was the decision maker. We agreed on a engaged level, engagement at 12.5 a month for about 15 hours a week or so. And he got fired. I followed up with him on a Friday and asked him some questions, didn’t respond. And I was like, “Hey,” he’s probably on, he’s probably gone for the weekend. It’s fine. And when I followed up again with him, first thing on Tuesday morning, I got the, that email has been disabled and this employee is no longer with the business. So I was ghosted, but with, with Casey’s coaching, I’m actually chasing down the CEO of the company right now to see if I can continue working on the contract. Cause they have the same problems, whether or not that guy’s still there or not.

00:34:07 Casey: Yeah, right. So ghosting does happen. Like that’s never happened to anyone that I’ve talked to before, but it’s like bound to happen. I lost a client. I had a renewal and got called on the day of the renewal and the client was like, “Hey, actually I got fired. You got fired. CFO got fired. Everyone’s fired except for like two guys on the product side.” So we all lost our jobs. Same day that stuff happens. But what about general ghosting outside of that to Mandy’s question?

00:34:33 Courtney: Casey, you have another really good example to reaching out to someone repetitively on email and then just finally being like, “What’s going on?” And they responded.

00:34:41 Casey: I just did one to a guy and… I forget. I’ll have to pull up what I sent, but I have fun with them. If I’m not having fun with these emails, it doesn’t matter. Oh, I did a like a… Courtney, Courtney, where are thou, Courtney kind of thing. And then like Shakespeare. And I just sent that to him. And he replied back in [inaudible]. Like it was perfect. And he was probably quiet for three weeks or something. And I don’t think he had a good reason. He probably was just behind on his emails or whatever. So yeah, I just keep following up with people. And  I would say for everyone listening, it’s never about you. If it’s about you, they’re going to say, “Courtney, stop talking to me. The answer is no.” To which you’re like, “Cool. Thanks. Next.” But if they don’t say that, then just anticipate that they got sick, that they had a problem with the supply chain, that a tariff is affecting their business and they’re figuring out what to do or whatever the thing is and just keep going after them.

00:35:32 Courtney: Yes, it’s not personal.

00:35:34 Lisa P: It’s not personal.

00:35:36 Casey: Until it’s personal. I welcome those. If you don’t get like one nasty [inaudible] a month, you’re probably not marketing hard enough, right?

00:35:42 Stacie: People need you so bad that they’re so busy that they can’t even have the time to reach back.

00:35:48 Casey: That’s right. I did that with my wife when we were dating. She like didn’t answer me. We were like online dating. She’s a human. She’s a real person, not an AI. And I just wrote her a note back. I said, “Talk to me.” And she like pulled over on a road trip and called me. It’s like, it works. If I hadn’t sent that message I probably wouldn’t be married to her, you know?

00:36:10 Courtney: I love it. Does anyone else have any more questions? We have about 15 minutes left on our time and I just want to make sure this is like the most conductive conversation that Casey can host for all of us. Again, so generous.

00:36:22 Casey: Charlotte’s asking about pitch decks. Who uses a pitch deck?

00:36:25 Jessie: So I’ll answer Charlotte. I’ll jump in here. I do. And I created it before I joined CMOx and I have since refined it with the lovely Raph’s feedback upon joining CMOx. That being said, as much as I love it and I use it, I also can see a world where it’s overkill. And one of the things that’s great about this program and I’m pitching it like everyone else, but it’s true is there’s a one pager template. And I think that’s probably enough, especially if you have one phone call with someone or you get kind of a cold email and you haven’t gone deep yet. Short and sweet, what you can offer them, not giving away too much.

00:37:00 Casey: Personally, I don’t like a pitch deck because I want to sell the bespoke solution for the person. I always think like, if I’m going to a restaurant, I don’t want a menu. I want my waiter or waitress to tell me what I’m having for dinner. And I want them to like construct a really wonderful experience.

00:37:16 Stacie: Chef tasting.

00:37:17 Casey: There’s no deck for that. Sorry, Stacie.

00:37:18 Stacie: I said Chef tasting every day.

00:37:20 Casey: Right. Exactly. Isn’t that what you want?

00:37:22 Stacie: Yep.

00:37:22 Lauren: The best way to use a deck I have found is with the secondary connections when you’re meeting someone who you think can pass you on to somebody else. It’s a good lead behind for that person to be as they can say, “Oh, are you interested in having a conversation with Lauren? Here’s her.” And I have it as like a capabilities deck. It’s not really like a menu of my services. It’s more about like the things that I can help you achieve.

00:37:49 Jessie: That is key. And I’ll jump in and say, I only use it as a [inaudible] behind. I will never get on the phone with someone and talk them through my deck.

00:37:57 Mandy: Yeah, totally agree. It needs to be a bespoke solution. You’re solving a specific problem for that company that you’re talking to for that founder. So you really need to do the listening and understand what problem you’re trying to solve for them and then providing them that bespoke solution for that person specifically.

00:38:18 Casey: Thanks, Mandy. Darla asked, “What are your top three things to do if you want to move more into fractional CMO stuff in 2026?” Lisa Perry, tell me about your distinction, like the moment that you decided to be a fractional CMO and what that means for being a full-time worker. Like you had an inflection point in your life when you said, I’m done with full-time stuff. And like, you’re not dabbling. I guess that’s what I want to hear. Like, what was your transition to go from like dabbling and I’m going to hunt job listings every day and get emails and talk to my friends or whatever versus I’m a fractional CMO. God damn it.

00:38:54 Lisa P: So I joined your group and I did both for three months. Not well, not well at all. I had so many job boards, I was getting hundreds of emails a day. I was looking at them all. I was trying to apply. I was trying to do business development, set that up, get my case studies together, get my website together. It was overwhelming and I just was spread too thin. And it really was my security blanket. I had been job searching for 18 months and it’s hard to say that, but I say it now. And it is just gut-wrenching to say it. And I just was not doing… I just was making myself small and not showing up authentically.

00:39:38 Lisa P: And I had the conversation with my husband, as I said, and he said, “You are all in, just do it.” And I ripped off the bandaid, I unsubscribed to everything. I stopped applying. I told my friends, which was even hard, stop sending me job opportunities. I don’t want them anymore. It was the hardest thing I had to do because it was my identity. It was what I was doing. It’s what I had done for years of just going and getting a job. And I was entering a space that I just did not know, but I knew I had to give it my all. And I did. I knew I wasn’t going to, you know, I had to do some ramp up. I had to do some foundational work before I could start seeing.

00:40:25 Lisa P: And I ended up getting a client a month later and I hadn’t planned on that. I had planned on doing the foundational, but I did. I got a client a month later because I had just given myself the space and the time to focus and give it my all and my energy. And that’s what I needed.

00:40:42 Casey: And Lisa, some of these deals that you’re working, I know of one deal that you’re working that it’s a company that you talked to early on. They’ve hired someone in the ops seat and they’re getting to a fundraise. And then once they raise the capital, it’s very likely that they’re going to hire you.

00:40:59 Lisa P: Yeah. And I think that’s part of the challenge that I’ve learned. Look, I was a marketer. I was a good wingman for sales. I was never sales. I was never business development. So this is a whole new role for me in learning this. And so part of that process has been leaning into things that are uncomfortable and you have taught really well about negotiating and being comfortable with “no,” and as you just said you know until they say “no” until they say, “I’m done, I’m ending this,” you know you keep leaning. And that has been a learning process. But part of it is also the length it takes to just be present in these folks is inbox or LinkedIn, because it may just not be right now.

00:41:47 Lisa P: And so if you stop showing up, somebody else may show up. And then when it is the right time, they’re choosing whoever’s right there. And so it’s just the persistence and the consistency of just checking in every so often. And as you said, I have tried… built the kind of relationship with this person over the last year that when the time is right, he will bring me in. But it… just some of these things just take a lot longer than I had anticipated. And that’s okay, too. It’s just building that in.

00:42:24 Casey: And I think that that’s like so critical to understand. There are deals that precipitate quickly. I mean, I think I had a big deal for me that came in. Someone called me. I answered the phone like, Hello, they’re like, “Hey, is this Casey?” Like, “Well, yeah.” And they’re like, “We want your help. We think you’re the guy.” I sold them a half day consult. At the end of the consult, they were like, will you start work on Monday? And we worked together for the next 26 months. The fastest deal I ever closed, highest cash value at the time. I mean, it was awesome. And there’s also other deals that I’ve worked for over a year before they’ve materialized.

00:42:55 Casey: And I’m sure I’m working on deals that are still going to materialize that I’ve been working on for years. So, if you want to be a fractional CMO commit, but then also reduce your risk by if you’re a full-time employee, like someone on the call, win clients on the side and then build that book of business up. And then at some point you’re to be like, wow, my fractional CMO work dwarfs my full-time work. There’s this weird thing that people have in the States, which is we think that health insurance is like too expensive and don’t get me wrong. It sucks and coverage sucks and whatever. I get it, but it’s not that bad.

00:43:27 Casey: It’s like, it’s a margin of error in what your client pays you. What’s health insurance going to cost you? A thousand bucks a month. Well, could you sell a client at five grand, then you could probably sell them at six grand. Boom, you covered your insurance. Like these things are very possible to do. And when you look at things like errors in emissions, insurance and things like that, like you can get that if you want, if it makes you feel comfortable. But like that’s not even really a requirement. You don’t have to go become a LLC, S-corp, C-corp, none of that stuff to get started. Go win the client, give them to sign the deal and then incorporate that night on your state’s  business creation website, whatever it is.

00:44:04 Courtney: I would like to two comments quickly if that’s okay. Lisa, I really relate to your notion of feeling personal value being tied to my professional title. And when I separated that in between jobs and before starting this for myself, it was really hard when people said, what do you do? Who are you? To be like, I’m nobody yet. I will be somebody someday [crosstalk]. You’re so used to just saying, here’s my title at work and that’s how I’m defined of my value that I bring to the table. And when you start to do this for yourself and you build a rapport with people, you can then again say, here’s a really cool project that I worked on and it doesn’t really matter what my title is while I’m there doing it. That’s one notion.

00:44:50 Courtney: And then second, Casey, to your point, you have helped me with something I’m sure everybody here has experienced too, which is overthinking and brewing over things. So I would often sit on email responses, reread them in a clear mind and then send them. But you have really helped me reposition to just like pulling the trigger. Everything does not have to be perfect all of the time, but how I have set my life so far before this. So really just saying to myself, send the email if they don’t respond, what’s gonna happen? You’re gonna send another one, someone will respond one day and really just starting to take action more than thinking about taking action is what’s most important.

00:45:32 Casey: Yeah, I send 10s of 1000s of emails a week. And the number of nasty [inaudible] that I get are so few, because no one actually… like people aren’t reading them. What’s your open rate? You know? Do they even remember the email you sent before? Probably not unless you put like some real… I don’t know, tea in it, like you made it real sassy or something. They probably don’t remember it? So yeah.

00:45:56 Courtney: Exactly. I also just want to say, I’m speaking for myself, but I’m sure everyone else on this panel is more than open and welcome to being added as a connection on LinkedIn. Everyone who is listening, whatever questions you have, if you really related to something somebody said, or you’re in the same niche, or you’re considering it, you want to dive deeper. I think we’re all, I speak for all of us when I say we’re all very open to conversations and just meeting cool people, like Raph said.

00:46:25 Casey: For sure.

00:46:27 Courtney: Thank you, Casey. Thank you so much.

00:46:28 Casey: Okay. I have one last question for you all. If someone was thinking about joining the accelerator, who would be a good fit and who wouldn’t be a good fit?

00:46:36 Stacie: You’re not committed. You have to be committed. There’s work involved and you got to do it.

00:46:41 Lisa O: I was just going to say they have to know that’s what they want to do.

00:46:45 Stacie: You don’t just join and like magical things happen. There’s a framework. You have to learn it. You have to put in the time. Like this isn’t just an overnight thing [inaudible]

00:46:56 Jessie: Like that networking comment… you gotta be willing to put yourself out there because that’s the only way you’re going to get traction.

00:47:00 Lisa P: And you’re going to hear a lot of no’s. And you have to be willing to get in there and have some thick skin and want this for the long haul to go through some of the tough stuff.

00:47:15 Mandy: Yeah, you have to be open to feedback about yourself and to be a little bit vulnerable, to understand what works for you and what doesn’t work for you as well.

00:47:25 Brandi: I was gonna say being coachable, Mandy. Being a vulnerability is a big piece of that. So I think that’s one thing when I join all these meetings, it’s how open everybody is with the problems that they’re experiencing. And like, that’s incredible, right? And it is a lot of vulnerability because we’re all like, okay, we got this, but yet it’s like, oh, everybody’s experiencing some problems that they need help solving. And so then you open up a little bit more and that’s the only way that you learn and you grow.

00:47:55 Casey: Let’s just fast forward two years from today. What do you all think your multiple of your current income will be? Will you make the same income? And we’re talking about in probably one of the most, I don’t know, for some people scary times with all this AI stuff coming up and automations and everything. What do you think your income is going to be in two years? Do think you’re going to be the same? You think it’s going to increase marginally double?

00:48:15 Stacie: Double.

00:48:16 Casey: Double, Stacie?

00:48:17 Stacie: At least. Yeah.

00:48:18 Kim: I say triple.

00:48:20 Casey: Triple? Love it.

00:48:21 Brandi: I’d like to consistently, yeah, triple. Let’s do it.

00:48:27 Casey; Yeah. And it doesn’t happen just from winning a client that pays you now $40,000 a month. It’s because you’re winning the client, you’re taking on risk because you know the problems that you solve, then you’re gonna jump in and you’re gonna solve those problems expertly. It’s gonna take some labor from you. You’ll work maybe a hard 10 hours a week, but then the outcome you get to share it. So you get all the upside with none of the risk. Although, I mean, you’re exposing yourself to some risk, but not really in comparison to the client themselves.

00:48:54 Mandy: Yeah. Isn’t the goal… My goal is to bring on clients that I can grow exponentially quickly over a two-year period to work my way exit myself out of the company because they need a full-time CMO at that point, right? So if I’m doing that really well, I am tripling or quadrupling my salary over the next couple of years.

00:49:18 Casey: You’re here for a good time, not for a long time.

00:49:20 Mandy: Exactly.

00:49:22 Casey: Yeah. I love it.

00:49:23 Lauren: Yeah. I think that’s one of the tasks like should you join I early on, like I didn’t have any paid clients and somebody offered me a full-time job. And I said, no, even though I wasn’t making any money. And I think that’s how like, you know, that you’re committed to this.

00:49:38 Casey: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And it’s inevitable. Like think about starting any business. Like you want to go join a franchise. You’re going to go spend $50,000, a hundred thousand dollars, hundreds of thousands of dollars to launch it. And when are you going to be profitable by month nine, right? And you’re going have all these fixtures and employees and you’re to be underwater for so long. It’s tough. Being a fractional CMO, it’s like you’re betting on yourself. You’re solving big problems. You’re going to be in industries that you believe in. If you don’t have experience in it, you have to do the work to become the best in it. And I just think like, there’s just nothing about this that is fake.

00:50:12 Casey: This isn’t like you’re one prompt away from having an AI agency that you make millions on. It’s like, no, we’re building out real marketing departments. Who said it recently in boardroom, was it Brandi? Stacie? Someone said I’ve led seven people over seven teams.

00:50:30 Brandi: Seven. Yeah. 30 people over seven. 30 people over seven clients. Yeah.

00:50:36 Casey: And just think of the way to that 30 people over seven clients. That’s real value. And they all feel a sense of confidence and direction that you’re providing for them. Yeah. So it makes sense that you should be paid well for that. Awesome. Courtney, first of all, thank you for asking to put this together. And ladies, this has been really fun. I learned a lot. So thank you very much. Thank you all for being here.

00:50:59 Courtney: Thank you, Casey. And genuinely, I think I speak for all of us in a world where it’s really hard to knock the walls down and to have these conversations and normalize them to let us use your platform here to communicate and make this a real thing for everybody experiencing it. I am so grateful. So you are making a difference in my life and others so genuinely. Thank you.

00:51:21 Casey: And you’re making a difference in all these companies’ lives. Just think of the impact. Like, there’s no more… The amount of impact all of you are making in all of these companies. I mean, 30 people from one person, right? And like everything else, all the teams, all the CEOs, all of their spouses, all their kids, like, we’re really creating significant change here. So I’m here just to like help you do that. Thank you, Courtney.

00:51:39 Courtney: Thank you.

00:51:40 Casey: Thank you so much for joining me. We just wrapped that. That was a two-hour long series over the last two episodes. And I learned so much about these women’s experience. And it was also just so great to hear just how they view what’s possible as a fractional CMO and why they’re so committed to it. And if your commitment is now at their level of, “Yes, hell yes, Casey, I am in, I wanna be a fractional CMO, I wanna do this, I wanna go pro,” then I encourage you to book a call in right now with my team. Go to cmox.co/call, book in a call, have a conversation, even see if we can help you. I don’t know if we can help you, but if we can, we’ll tell you what that looks like. So go ahead and do it. Free call, no pressure, cmox.co/call, and maybe you’ll get to hang out with those ladies in boardrooms soon. All right, take care.

00:52:25 Casey: Thank you for sticking around for the full episode. As you know, learners are earners, but you’ve got to take action on what you heard today. For more information and show notes, visit fractionalcmoshow.com. If you’d like me to answer your questions on an upcoming episode, you can share your question at fractionalcmoshow.com. And last, please hit the like and subscribe button so that I know that this content is helpful to you. Alright, go get’em!