Transcript:

00:00:00 Casey: In this episode, I talk with one of my members inside the CMOx accelerator. Rachel is an awesome marketer, and before she joined the accelerator she was in a traditional nine to five job. Then she joined the accelerator and the thing that I see in her is that something changed when she sold her first client. And the thing that changed about her was like the way that she sees how the world works. I want you to tune in and see the reality of how the world works in her eyes and why she’s selling high dollar fractional CMO services now  and how she’s doing it by getting upside too. It’s pretty killer. Let’s go.

00:00:41 Casey: Marketers of the world, why do we work hard to solve small problems? Why do we reinvent ourselves and our clients over and over? And why are we giving away marketing strategy for free? With advancements in AI, we’re all seeing the marketing department shrink from the bottom up and companies need you to serve them as their fractional chief marketing officer. It’s time to solve bigger problems and bring home a bigger paycheck. It’s time to create the lifestyle we deserve and to make a greater impact. This is the Fractional CMO Show and I’m Casey Stanton. Join me as we explore this growing industry and learn to solve bigger problems as marketing leaders. The Fractional CMO Show is sponsored by CMOx, the number one company to teach you how to attract, convert, and serve high paying fractional CMO clients on your terms.

00:01:38 Casey: All right, welcome back. I’m here with one of our members, Rachel. And  I’m excited to talk to Rachel about her arc. Rachel, I don’t know if I’ve ever said this to you, but the way that I think of you is someone who didn’t get it. And then she got it, and now she sees the world differently.

00:01:56 Rachel: I think that’s absolutely true.

00:01:58 Casey: Yeah. Okay, cool. So, you joined the accelerator and there was something that you didn’t get. And then you made a sale, and everything changed for you. Will you just walk me through, like just high level, like in a minute or less, like where’d you come from professionally? What was your background? And then you joined the accelerator, and like, how did things kind of get you up to the point of selling your first client?

00:02:23 Rachel: Sure, absolutely. So thanks for inviting me to join you, Casey. It’s really a pleasure to be with you. And  I’ve gained really such a tremendous amount from being in the accelerator, and from working with you and with Raph and with your whole team. It’s been  really an extraordinary experience. I feel like so often when I speak to friends of mine or tell people about the experience that I’ve had, I sound like an infomercial or something because I’ve just had… it’s really been transformative for me and I’m so grateful for that.

00:02:51 Rachel: I would say when I— so my background is I came up in high tech in the tech scene in Tel Aviv, Israel. I had a little more than a decade of experience in the tech scene in Israel, doing all sorts of marketing, mainly focused on product and content marketing for  B2B and beta SMB. And I decided after some challenging times in my own life, my dad passed away, mom had surgery, all kinds of things happened. That I wanted to consider going out on my own. And specifically, I felt like the sort of go, go, go 24/7, but maybe not necessarily making the impact that I was making was right for me.

00:03:35 Rachel: And I happened to Google around, stumble upon your book, learn about the accelerator. And it seemed like, wow, there’s actually a way for me to do what I’m best at because what I’m best at is the marketing strategy and leadership. I’ve done the writing of the blogs. I’ve done the managing of the campaigns. That’s not really what I want to do. And to be honest, that’s not where I’m especially good.

00:03:58 Rachel: I’m not the world’s best SEO technician. I’m not the world’s best at paid ads, but I am really great at figuring out how to mix up the different marketing channels to drive the best results for companies that I’m working with. And so that transition is one that I was really excited to try and make. And I would say, when I joined the accelerator, I was really a bit tentative. My family had just moved across the world from Israel to—

00:04:30 Casey: Which were your mom’s basement for a minute?

00:04:32 Rachel: There was my mom’s house. Yep. We lived with her, three kids, my husband and me lived with my mom for seven months. And that was a challenge in and of itself. And then we moved into our house. There were a lot of things that were happening at the same time. And I would say that the accelerator and working with you, the transition that I made really was in coming to understand the value that I could offer to clients.

00:05:01 Rachel: So if initially I was sort of shy about, for instance, my pricing, I’ve come to realize that the value that I’m going to drive for clients because of what I know how to do is just so much greater than what I’m going to charge them. Whatever that number is that I’m charging them, I’m gonna generate many, many times that in revenue for them and in value for them. And that is just hugely, hugely significant for me and for my family, but maybe most of all for the clients.

00:05:33 Rachel: So if you’re a client who’s… if you’re a company that’s gonna be going through a transformation of some sort and you may not be in a position where you need or want to bring on a full-time CMO. Bringing in someone like me is going to enable you to make that transition successfully. Whereas in the past, I had always been in this mindset of, to build a company in a marketing organization.

00:05:56 Rachel: First, you’re to bring on a mid-level marketing manager, and then maybe you’re going to bring in an agency to do some paid work and sort of down the line, you’re going to bring in someone to do strategy. Or maybe one of the founders is going to make their way through that strategy. I now understand the value that I can bring by bringing that high level executive marketing strategy to bear on clients of all sizes.

00:06:20 Casey: I love it. Okay, so you left a full-time job.

00:06:26 Rachel: I did. 

00:06:27 Casey: And you made this decision to kind of go off on your own. Your husband is also doing consulting work.

00:06:35 Rachel: Yeah. He works with CEOs.

00:06:37 Casey: Great. So you guys are both kind of doing something kind of similar. You’re staying in the marketing side. He’s on the CEO side and you go off on your own and you kind of question how you’re going to able to deliver value because you live maybe previously in a paradigm that says that you have to build an organization a certain way. And then, you know, we had our conversation back and forth where you landed this great client and you  inked in a really great deal for you, but I think also for the client, it gets you tied to their success, which I think is a huge deal and gives you the opportunity to earn kind of an unlimited amount of money with that project. So how are things different now? Like how do you see the world differently today?

00:07:26 Rachel: You know, it’s interesting.

00:07:26 Casey: Yeah. Go ahead.

00:07:28 Rachel: No, no. It’s good timing that you asked me that because I had an opportunity recently to submit a proposal for an additional client. And I had a little bit of trepidation going into that because, you know, that I’ve gone back and forth debating on exactly how many clients I want to be taking on and going through the process of talking to them and going through sort of a little bit of a variation of what the accelerator calls like the marketing strategy session, but really kind of taking that as my baseline from which to generate the conversation really helped me to see that I am now in a position where I’m not just overwhelmed by the one client that I have at one level, but that I really am now in a position where I’m able to  have the confidence in what I’m bringing to the table that I am excited about and ready for additional work.

00:08:21 Rachel: And so, I would say, I really see the journey that I’ve taken over the past year of this a little bit nervous, you know, coming out of corporate world into really coming into myself. It’s not that I don’t care whether I get the proposal accepted or not. But now, I know the value that I bring and I’m so much more-

00:08:43 Casey: You’ve got opportunity now that’s in front of you. First of all, you’ve got like this great client that you have right now where you’ve got upside. Awesome opportunity. One of the things, so you’re in boardroom. We chat on WhatsApp. What are the things I love about you is I feel like you don’t sleep. You’re always on that. Just like chatting, sharing your ideas and I just remember it like Saturday night at 9:30. Like there’s [inaudible] And I just remember you saying something along the lines of like, “Oh, I wouldn’t take on a gig like I have now without at least charging 20% more.”

00:09:14 Rachel: That’s absolutely true.

00:09:16 Casey: Yeah. So, you see the value. So can you tell me specifically, how did your perception of your own value change? Like, what are you doing now that is worth so much more money? Because you’re working a lot less. You’re working a quarter of the time that you used to work full time for one client. And you’re making great money from that. What shifted in you about that? What are the things that you’re doing that’s differently? Where are you spending your time differently?

00:09:46 Rachel: So, I think a lot of it is about confidence and an understanding of the systems that you’re using. So initially, for instance, the first time I did a quarterly planning session with a client, it was like, “What am I doing?” This is like, “Do I really know what I’m doing to do a quarterly planning session?”

00:10:04 Rachel: And by the time I was putting together this proposal, it wasn’t a quarterly planning session, but I sat down with them for this meeting and I just, knew what I was doing. I knew what the questions were that I wanted to ask. And part of your method, not to like keep talking about the method, but like, part of what I do as a fractional CMO is to get an understanding of where the company is and where they want to go.  

00:10:29 Rachel: And I feel like if before I might have felt like to get from here to here, I was gonna need to take them through. Now I know that they’re gonna get so much more quickly from here to here by using me than they are in any other way. So I know that I can just do so much more, so much faster for them, in part because I know what I do and what I don’t do. So  I have a wonderful marketing technician who I’m working with now.  And every time I think to myself, I could do this thing, I think she could do this thing, and she has a fabulous attitude.  And I hope she will be like my version of Raf and will be with me for the next eight years, because I would love it. But she is able to take things off my plate, which clears up space on my plate and in my life to really focus on where I’m going to drive the most value for the client, for my business, and for my life.

00:11:24 Casey: I love that. I love that you. I get a sense of impatience. Like, I want to deliver value. I need to ask the questions. I need to drive. I need to push forward so I can deliver the value, so I can charge this money, so I can be helpful. Is that kind of your vibe?

00:11:40 Rachel: Absolutely. Absolutely. I have realized that as a fractional CMO, my impatience, rather than being a thing that’s getting in my way, is the thing that’s going to push me to be more effective. And that, as I have realized that, I’ve realized that my niche, even more than being my focus really on kind of Israeli American tech, is even more than that on companies that are really looking for transformative growth. And it’s because I’m impatient that I want to take on those kinds of customers, because I want to help them get there. Because I’m excited about going from here to here. I do sleep, but I also am always thinking about my clients.

00:12:21 Rachel: So what can I do? What can I. If I’m driving to pick up my kids, if I’m at the gym, if I’m watching TV, whatever it could be, I’m always, you know, thinking in the background about what I can be doing for my clients and how I can be better and-

00:12:36 Casey: Not because you have to though, right?

00:12:38 Rachel: Sorry?

00:12:39 Casey: Not because you have to, but you just like enjoy the game. Is that?

00:12:40 Rachel: Yeah, totally. Like the proposal that I sent out last week, I just can’t stop thinking about all the things that I could do and how great it will be.

00:12:50 Casey: Okay. So I think that the people who are the best at whatever they do are the people who play it like a game, who have fun. And it seems like you’ve kind of translated this world of like labor to, I don’t know, like a bit of a dance.

00:13:04 Rachel: Yeah.

00:13:05 Casey: Is that true?

00:13:06 Rachel: Yes, absolutely.

00:13:07 Casey: So how? Like what is that? What do you think’s changed in it?

00:13:11 Rachel: I mean, I think I always have viewed marketing as a bit of a dance or a game or whatever you want to call it in the sense that it’s fun, right? If you send out an email to 20,000 people and you can watch and see-

00:13:22 Casey: 20,000 people. I love that. Right.

00:13:25 Rachel: You know, my client, one client that I have their open rate. Initially, the rate of people who are opening their emails was like, I think it was around 8%. And now we’re sitting at 60%.

00:13:36 Casey: Awesome.

00:13:37 Rachel: I mean, that’s. That’s completely life-altering for this client, right? That’s a total shift in everything that happens for them. And that has happened because I had the background in email marketing and in figuring out how to really translate our value into those emails.  And I also think that as fractional CMOs, the burden is on us to be sure that we’re only working with companies who are providing real value.

00:14:07 Rachel: I have confidence in the companies that I work with because I know that what they do is good. And because I know that they’re not, no one’s trying to pull the wool over anyone’s eyes. Really good marketing is about getting the right products to the right people at the right time. And so if you’re doing a better job of that, your client’s revenue is going to go up, but the value that their customers are deriving from that relationship is also going to go up. So it’s about creating value, not just for your client, but really across the supply chain of the company that you’re working for.

00:14:38 Casey: Totally. And not only that, you’re also impacting the lives of the marketing team that you’re building and the CEO, and then obviously all of their customers. I mean, it’s massive impact you make. 

00:14:49 Rachel: Absolutely. mean, years ago, I remember somebody who worked for me came into my office with tears in their eyes and just said that the job that I’d given them had completely changed things for them and for their family. And I think that’s the goal is really driving an impact for everyone down the line. 

00:15:10 Casey: Yeah, yeah, totally. Okay, so what’s next for you as you think about the next type of client that you want to work with? What is one of the things that’s kind of like, maybe got you excited or maybe even a little scared that you’re wanting to tackle?

00:15:24 Rachel: So I’m thinking about moving  more  into sales enablement work.

00:15:29 Casey: Okay. Great.

00:15:31 Rachel: It’s more bottom of the funnel kind of stuff. It’s called sales enablement, but I see it as part of the marketing funnel and I see it as part of – sort of making your marketing team more effective. So, I guess I would be excited about working with companies that are looking to do that in kind of an aggressive way, kind of squeeze more juice from the team that they’ve got, build up that growth. I would love to double my income. You gave me a challenge, I think a few months ago, you were like, “Rachel, I want to watch you do it.” And I want to watch me do it too. So I want to grow my income. 

00:16:12 Rachel: I also think just doing the work on a continual basis always wins consistency.  And so the last week or two weeks, I’ve just had so many inquiries and I don’t know which of them are or are not going to play out, but it’s like every day I open my email and  a friend who has a tech company wants to know if I would be willing to work with some of her clients and someone else who I know has a company and wants to see if I might be able to help them and someone else that I know hears that I’m fractional CMO and what that means and is like, that’s exactly what we need. And so I feel like the ball is rolling now.  And that  is really exciting for me  because it’ll enable me to move more into my zone of genius, more really focus on what I do and what I do well.

00:17:02 Casey: Yeah, awesome. I think that’s so good. Do you think that being a fractional CMO is like, do you think we’re early? Do you think  we’re kind of at the middle of the wave? Where do you think we are? 

00:17:12 Rachel: I think we’re early. I think we’re early. And I think it took me some time to understand  the value that we provide in the sense, as I spoke about earlier, you know, a company that needs  strategic marketing, that needs to understand what they’re doing in marketing. So often it feels like the only thing that they can do is hire a VP or hire a CMO  and we’re offering them an alternative. Every company can have a marketing strategist, an experienced high level executive with experience in marketing who can guide their strategy. What that looks like is a fractional CMO.

00:17:54 Rachel: And I keep thinking about all the areas of my life that are fractional. So for instance, my accountant is wonderful. She definitely doesn’t work for me full time. She’s fractional. My dentist, I see them twice a year. Definitely very, very fractional. I don’t want a full-time dentist. I don’t want a full-time accountant. I don’t want a full-time therapist, right? These are all people who work for me in chunks, right?  And we have a contractor. We work on our house. None of these are people that I’m bringing on full-time, but I’m able to fit them in where I want them to go. And so I feel, as a marketer like, “Where did this 40 hours a week thing come from?” I was talking with someone about it. I was like, 40, 40, like you have a bunch of numbers going by kind of I Love Lucy style and someone just was like, “40, that seems like a good number. Like, what?  Like where did that come from?”

00:18:48 Rachel: And no one would ever say to a dentist, “Oh, I don’t want to go to you unless you’re willing to work on my teeth for 40 hours a week.” Or, right, you know, so I think the world is fractional and we just are coming around to that idea and other spheres a little more slowly.

00:19:04 Casey: That’s a great point. That’s a great way to look at it.  And I like to think like, you full time would be expensive. Right? Like your full time rate, if like someone made you a full time offer, it’d be a big offer. But you wouldn’t give them four times the value if you worked 40 hours versus 10. It’s not four times your value. It’s like that 10 hours really good.

The next five is pretty good, but then it just kind of like – you kind of get weak after that. You’re kind of like staying busy at some point.

00:19:35 Rachel: Yeah, absolutely. And I don’t do that now. Like I provide value where I provide value. I don’t, I don’t do reporting on my hourly stuff because you know what? Sometimes I’m thinking about work stuff when I’m doing life stuff. And sometimes I’m doing work stuff and thinking about life stuff. Years ago, a friend of mine told me it’s about the kind of, it’s not work life balance. It’s sort of like the melding of the two a little bit. I don’t know how I feel about that idea, but it’s definitely a piece of how I operate. I want to integrate both of those things. So I can go be a parent and do some work and not need to report to anybody on when I’m doing that. It sort of feels like I’m an adult and I manage my own time. And this finally reflects that I don’t need to be asking permission.

00:20:23 Casey: Yeah. Yeah. That’s such a big deal. Having like being married and having kids. It’s like you, the last thing you want is a boss telling you, “When and how?” But it’s fine for someone to tell you what. Like, “Rachel, I want this outcome by this date.” And you’re like, “Yeah, I agree. And this is the budget. And you agree. Cool. I’ll make it happen.”

00:20:42 Rachel: Yep.

00:20:43 Casey: And then how you choose to make it happen, you know, you leave up to you, right? 

00:20:46 Rachel: I don’t want to bug someone. You know, I work with adults. 

00:20:50 Casey: Yeah.

00:20:51 Rachel: They’re responsible for their time. I’m responsible for my time. Just part of being a grunt. 

00:21:04 Casey: Yeah. Yeah. That’s a great point. At the end of the day, I want to show up as a fractional CMO. You want to show up as a fractional CMO. We want to have big outcomes. want to rally the troops. We want to send everyone off in their own directions with their big outcomes to accomplish and enough time to do it. And, if they say, “Hey, Rachel, I’ve actually got a wedding to go to on Friday.” You say, “Send photos. Have a great time. Bye.” You don’t say like, “Uh-oh, are you gonna get all your work done? How do I know you’re gonna get your work done?” Because you’re working with adults and they’re just gonna handle it, right?

00:21:35 Rachel: Yep.

00:21:37 Casey: Awesome. Rachel, thank you for jumping on.

00:21:40 Rachel: For sure. Thanks so much for having me here–

00:21:40 Casey: I love watching your arc. Yeah, your arc here is really exciting. I’ve got you on my short list of those that I think are going to kick the most butt in 2025. And I really don’t want you to let me down.

00:21:55 Rachel: Thank you. Thank you so much, Casey. I really appreciate it. And I know that you didn’t ask me to come on here and recommend CMOx but you could ask anybody from my husband to my toddler to my older kids and they would all tell you that really, I think, especially for groups that traditionally might undervalue themselves like women, like mothers or like I’m five feet tall, you know, the accelerator viewed and to show their value based on who they are. And I just would encourage people who are considering it to take a close look at that. And I know you did not ask me to say that. I just want to be clear about that.

00:22:36 Casey: Okay, so you’re just saying for short moms, this is the place to go?

00:22:39 Rachel: Short moms. Short moms.

00:22:41 Casey: Okay, cool. We got it. Thank you, Rachel, for being here. I’ll see you soon.

00:22:44 Rachel: Thanks, Casey. Bye.

00:22:47 Casey: Thank you for sticking around for the full episode. As you know, learners are earners, but you’ve got to take action on what you heard today. For more information and show notes, visit FractionalCMOShow.com. If you’d like me to answer your questions on an upcoming episode, you can share your question at FractionalCMOShow.com. And last, please hit the like and subscribe button  so that I know that this content is helpful to you.  Alright, go get ‘em!